Parents objecting to male nursery staff changing nappies

[popehilarious]

www.nurseryworld.co.uk/nursery-world/news/1168681/parents-uncomfortable-with-male-practitioners-changing-their-childs-nappy

Hope the clicky link works.
The male staff are usually the key workers who would normally change nappies but some parents object.

I'm not a safeguarding expert but presumably the same rules and policies apply to both sexes of staff? How can a nursery as an employer discriminate duties on the basis of sex, or would this fall under the exemptions (ie asking for same-sex person to do intimate care) where the child is female? I'm a bit muddled about this.

My son had male nursery key workers who were great role models.

Reducing contact with men does reduce the possibility of abuse whether or not we.like to admit that. But that on men. Amd.i.would hope these Male workers as upset as they are with parents being wary are also equally angry at the men who are the reasons they feel that way

I don’t agree.
Where does it stop? Do we try and reduce contact with males completely to stop sexual abuse?

My children interact with many males. Sports coaches. Swim teachers. Music teachers. Nursery workers. Nurses. Doctors. Dentists. Family. The next door neighbour. The bloke in the pet shop. Police. Firefighters. Paramedics.

I cannot protect them from every male. If i stopped or reduced contact for fear of paedophiles they would have half the life experience they do now.

The risk is better managed not by stopping men interact with children, but being aware of safeguarding and educating yourself and your child.

You wouldn’t believe how many parents will let male sports coaches give their kids a lift home from training. How many children have 1:1 with music teachers.

Safeguarding is the way to reduce risk.
Put the policies in place that make it impossible to find an opportunity.

Blindly trusting women not to abuse won’t stop them abusing either. Safeguarding will.

I came across this on fb yesterday: m.youtube.com/watch?v=fqnoGDQ2i2k

Go check the comments. Questioning why a man would want to look after an 8 year old girl by himself.

We can’t let the actions of a minority stop half the population taking on caring roles.

sunhill women are being forced to do more than their allocated share of nappy-changing. This is discrimination against women in a less direct way.

But I had the same thought process as SarahTancredi. Males are riskier as a group. But I think safeguarding processes in nurseries should be so watertight that it doesn't matter.

It’s shit and I would have thought any nursery which pandered to this could potentially face sex discrimination charges? Because a male worker could argue that if a nursery had this as a rule then if a second/third/fourth man applied for a job there then they couldn’t get it as there would be no staff allowed to change nappies.

@Doobigetta - absolutely agree with you.

There’s a ton of projection and harmful stereotyping going on in the objections to male staff changing nappies. Childcare should be a job for people of both sexes. Nappy changing for babies/toddlers is not in any way comparable to something like a gynaecology check-up.

I expect that the male od the couples who objected to male nursery staff changing nappies are forbidden to change their own children's nappies.
How do those women trust their partners?

Males are more likely to be sex offenders than females so from that POV I can see why some feel the way they do but all the normal checks and safeguarding should be in place really so it shouldn’t be an issue.

I think the fact is that men in childcare will always have that extra eye upon them, and are as such perhaps an overall safer bet than women.

I dunno. I just don't think it's sending the right message to the kids if men and women childcare workers don't do things equally.

A timely thread on the day this charming character is out and looking for work.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-49739731

My children interact with many males. Sports coaches. Swim teachers. Music teachers. Nursery workers. Nurses. Doctors. Dentists. Family. The next door neighbour. The bloke in the pet shop. Police. Firefighters. Paramedics.

From that list above perhaps maybe a doctor may see your child's bum, not the others that's the difference. Also they will see your child's bum everyday they are changing their nappy and yes intimate care it is. Safe practices such as two people present so not always protect children because staff get comfortable and trust each other so might nip else where here and there in the busy nursery.

You mention the 1 women nursery staff member who committed a crime but let's compare that the the percentage of gender sexual abuse in the UK, mostly men.

So no I would not want a male person who I do not know touching my child's nappy.

Partners are not In this area obviously or why would you have had a child if you could not trust a dp to change a nappy, totally different.

I don't care who it offends it's my child and I will try to reduce as much risk as I can.

bluebluezoo that’s worrying that Male sports coaches are giving children lifts in their car. I naively asked a cricket coach if he could drop my son back after a session & he explained all coaches are advised NOT to give kids lifts, to protect themselves from false accusations of inappropriate behaviour.

Well I guess I would be one of these “terrible women” if I had kids.
I was sexually abused by my own dad, I was only ever sexually harassed as a child by men, and I’m aware that 98% of sex crimes are committed by men. So you can say “if it was the other way around their would be uproar” but why on earth should men be treated the same as women when it comes to things like this, when the statistics speak for themselves?

It’s also ironic that people talk about harmful stereotypes around men and how awful that is, whilst exclusively blaming women for it!

She was sending the photos to a man wasn't she?

Because when women commit sexual crimes they almost always do it in tandem with a man.

Having read the article again, I think it is profoundly dishonest for the discussion there not to acknowledge the facts about male violence. Yes, women abuse, too, but men abuse 50 times more often.

We must therefore expect the profession itself to address this issue directly. And tackle it, as pp and myself have suggested, by having robust caring policies in place that minimise risk for both sexes.

But they seem to be discussing the problem without mentioning the elephant in the room - the reality of male violence that sees 98% of sexual offences committed by men. Once again, an issue best solved by having an honest conversation addressing the root cause of concerns. Instead the concerns are dismissed by accusing parents of adhering to sex stereotypes around caring roles or being prejudiced against men.

I've seen it handled differently, I know it can be done without dismissing parents' concerns or discriminating against male staff. But you have to be willing to address what lies at the root of these concerns.

NAMALTing all over this won't solve the problem.

It’s also ironic that people talk about harmful stereotypes around men and how awful that is, whilst exclusively blaming women for it!

I agree

We can surely acknowledge fact without that immediately translating that to leam that no man should ever be around children ever.

I would love to see more men in child care but this is a Male.problem.to fix. As usual its wine being blamed for the hang up in the first place ..I dont see that many men actively trying to prove otherwise do you?. Many actively embrace the get out clause .

How is this our fault.

Women

Although there may he wine involved sometimes

If women claim that some jobs are exclusively for women we open ourselves up to the argument that some jobs should be exclusively for men. Guess which jobs women would end up with?

In the UK we believe that people are innocent until proved guilty (at least I hope we do). We don't discriminate against people because of the groups they belong to:
We don't say that as people of colour are more likely to been convicted of a crime than white people (because of socio-economic reasons, I'd like to add), that we can then assume people of colour are criminals.
We don't say that as women are more likely to take maternity leave that an employer can use this as a reason not to hire women.
We don't say that as older people are more likely to suffer dementia that we can assume all older people are likely to suffer dementia.

If feminism is about anything surely it's about this. Treat people based on their actions, not by the statistics of a group they belong to.

I don't think you understand feminism if you don't think it is firmly rooted in class analysis.

That's true. I don't think it conflicts with what I said, does it?

@Doobigetta you said

"You don’t want to receive intimate care from a male because you want to protect your privacy and dignity. Infants who are still in nappies don’t have any concept of either, "

But it is my choice. If I do not want a strange man to see my daughter's bum/vagina - that is my choice.

As I said, I am given the option to choose a female doctor. I would want to choose the same thing for my daughter - who is not able to speak for herself

Well yes. Class analysis is the diameteic opposite of this

If feminism is about anything surely it's about this. Treat people based on their actions, not by the statistics of a group they belong to.

I think sometimes where people go wrong is they have this idea that if only we are vigilant, we can reduce risk to almost nothing.

Of course that's never the case. If children go to daycare, to school, anywhere, there is always a risk. Not just of sexual abuse but other kinds which can be quite as bad in their own way. There is no shortage of instances of physically and mentally abusive women in childcare settings that have nothing to do with men.

Even in terms of things like someone mentioned, not leaving a child alone with a music teacher. How long does that go on? How well do you need to know a person before you consider that the risk is sufficiently low? How well do we ever know anyone.

I think it makes sense to be aware that men are more likely to offend sexually. If my husband ever kicks off, you can be sure the possibility that a man I dated might really be interested in access to my kids is not going to be far from my mind. But I'm also not willing to live in fear of all relationships with men, or have my kids pick that up.

Class analysis is the diameteic opposite of this

I think you are going to be coming to some interesting conclusions in your analysis if you are happy to have individuals judged and treated according to their membership in a group.

If I had a child in nursey male or female it wouldn’t bother me at all if there was a male nursery worker changing its nappy . Equally if I was employing a nanny , as I did , I would have no problem with employing a manny . That’s just my view .

if you are happy to have individuals judged and treated according to their membership in a group.

I didn't say that I was so you needn't fret about that.

Not understanding the risk men present as a group to women and children as a group is a massive issue. And one that only feminists and non-woke working class dads really seem to really get.