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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Sheffield strip club keeps licence despite opposition by feminist coalition

999 replies

stumbledin · 18/09/2019 16:13

From the way the Guardian reports it (but does anyone think their reporting is unbiased) the undercover filming that campaigners organised has worked against them.

I think the licence will be reviewer again in a year. Have a horrible feeling that if it hadn't been "feminists" campaigning but "local" people the council would have acted differently. The patriarchy likes to be seen to slapping down uppity women.

They didn't even value the opinion of the local Rape Crisis Centre which works nearby. Sad

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/17/sheffield-strip-club-keeps-licence-despite-opposition-by-feminist-coalition

OP posts:
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9
RosesAndRaindrops · 19/09/2019 00:04

If it's choosy choice feminism to believe that women can think and do things for themselves and are independent of their own thought, I'm guilty of being that then and proud of it.
I'd never dream of speaking for all women and telling them what they can and can't do, should or shouldn't be doing or aren't capable of making their own choices like some seem to.

KatesMott · 19/09/2019 00:17

I didn’t see anywhere that states women accessing the rape crisis centre are being ‘harassed’ - people working at the rape crisis centre feel having the club near them is objectionable on a number of levels but I can’t see it stated that direct harassment is one of them. Indeed I’d imagine their physical office hours aren’t consistent with those of a nightclub for the most part.

Also, I’d imagine crime rises in a similar fashion to any late night establishment with an alcohol licence, spearmint rhino isn’t unique in that respect and within in that vicinity so it would be difficult to attribute a rise solely to them.

I worked as a lap dancer in many establishments including spearmint rhino, I had more harassment by feminist groups in that time than I ever did from men (and indeed women) visiting the clubs

WrathoSWhlttIeKIop · 19/09/2019 00:42

MsMelanie
RosesAndRaindrops

I agree with all that you say

Also, if people on these boards all say the same thing then it becomes a mere echo chamber

Blahblahblah
Derail derail derail

RosesAndRaindrops · 19/09/2019 00:51

Blahblahblah Derail derail derail

wtf, it's called a differing opinion, that's not a bloody derail lol but this inane post I've quoted definitely is Grin
Oh and the last bit you highlighted and attributed to me wasn't actually me.

WrathoSWhlttIeKIop · 19/09/2019 00:53

Soz roses I wasn't taking your post seriously.

RosesAndRaindrops · 19/09/2019 00:54

Also, if people on these boards all say the same thing then it becomes a mere echo chamber

Was MsMelanie for clarity - are two people not allowed to disagree at the same time, and to agree with someone else's point if it aligns with their own, is that what you're classing as a derail?
FFS batshit on these boards sometimes - it IS the very definition of an echo chamber if alternative views aren't tolerated and seen as derail.

RosesAndRaindrops · 19/09/2019 00:56

Soz roses I wasn't taking your post seriously
Whatevs, groovy then - page flippin 2 and it's descended to this level of discussion instead of debating as people are cross at women dissenting from the party think.
Par for the course lol

WrathoSWhlttIeKIop · 19/09/2019 01:03

ResultGrin

RosesAndRaindrops · 19/09/2019 01:11

Result

So you set out to derail all along then? But somehow it's us doing that?
Um... oookay . But you admitting to derailing absolutely shows how it's just not tolerated on here to have a different opinion.
Exactly shows up how much of an echo chamber it really is on here if you feel the need to derail by page 2 and try to shut everybody up.

RosesAndRaindrops · 19/09/2019 01:14

I'd still love to know how it's fine to film women intimately without their consent if it's to fit your own ends and viewpoint but not if it's to fit someone elses?

Creepster · 19/09/2019 01:23

What the fuck has happened to this board?
Just a temporary invasion of pimps and punters insisting that women and little girls choose their choice to be exploited.

WrathoSWhlttIeKIop · 19/09/2019 01:26

It's just sport innit.

Creepster · 19/09/2019 01:29

I think it is also called brigading on reddit. I don't know what they call it here.

WrathoSWhlttIeKIop · 19/09/2019 01:36

Check your privilege when you, yourself choose to do something.

That's all.

MrsTerryPratchett · 19/09/2019 03:54

Check your privilege

Other platitudes are available.

PennysPocket · 19/09/2019 06:07

Why is porn/lap dancing/prostitution OK?
Why do they exist in modern times?

They all serve men. That's it.
Mens desires and wants.
We don't accept exploitation in any other forms but the sex industry seems to be promoted as different 🤔

"it's the woman's choice" is always used to try and cover the fact that choosing it as a job wouldn't exist if the sexual wants of men were not seen as important as oxygen or food and water.

I was discussing future careers with my 12 DDs and we covered many different jobs. Not once did I offer up serving men's sexual wants as a career option.

SonEtLumiere · 19/09/2019 07:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Wurzelsnewhead · 19/09/2019 08:15

I'd still love to know how it's fine to film women intimately without their consent if it's to fit your own ends and viewpoint but not if it's to fit someone elses?

Aka don’t highlight women being abused while sleazy men look on for entertainment - the punters are really out in force on this thread 🙁

deydododatdodontdeydo · 19/09/2019 08:20

They all serve men. That's it.
Mens desires and wants.
We don't accept exploitation in any other forms but the sex industry seems to be promoted as different

Pretty much my opinion too until I saw the pictures of the women (strippers) on the street protesting to keep their jobs.
It's hard to convince myself they are exploited when they are out actively campaigning to be allowed to do it.

BarbaraStrozzi · 19/09/2019 08:39

I'd still love to know how it's fine to film women intimately without their consent if it's to fit your own ends and viewpoint but not if it's to fit someone elses?

Yes, this is part of the issue. "Sex work is work just like any other work" until someone sends in hidden cameras as part of a whistle blowing exercise (akin to journalists filming undercover in Sports Direct warehouses), then suddenly it's an invasion of privacy.

Actually, in this instance it is probably both an invasion of privacy, and highlights the fact that the punters are nasty voyeuristic perves, because the only difference between the acceptability of the two situation is that money is changing hands.

As for the "well, the women need to work, and are demonstrating for it" argument - individual choices don't take place in a social vacuum. A pub owner needs the profits from his establishment - but if he routinely allows people to get steaming drunk then cause trouble round the neighbourhood, his licence will be taken away. Strippers may need the income from a job (though arguably not this precise one) but if the presence of the club creates an environment in the surrounding area where no other woman is safe to go about her day-to-day business because of harrassment from the voyeuristic perves the strip club attracts in large numbers, then the club has to go.

For the end game of this - see Holbeck and its red light zone, where no woman or girl is safe to walk any more, and women have been bundled into cars and raped by punters, because they assume that any female out on the streets in Holbeck is fair game. Nor has it made the prostitutes working the streets any safer - within weeks of the scheme opening, Daria Pionka was murdered by a punter. Yet the local council still persists in pushing the idea that their "managed zone" (aka wild west where anything goes) is a good idea.

(No, I'm not conflating stripping and prostitution - but they are part of the same spectrum, and both act to the detriment of women as a whole by telling a certain subset of men that women are there to be bought and sold and are not human beings.)

LangCleg · 19/09/2019 08:40

What the fuck has happened to this board?

Sad, isn't it, Lippy? But to answer your question:

This thread in particular: astroturf.

Generally: filibustering and inconsistent moderating.

There is some amusement when filibuster is oblivious to astroturf, I suppose.

BarbaraStrozzi · 19/09/2019 08:49

Lang is right - this particular form of astroturfing has been going on for years.

Every single time we discuss aspects of porn, prostitution and other forms of industrialised sexual abuse of women, we get shills from the "industrial-rape complex" popping up to spout the happy hooker myth, with a massive side order of "you're doing feminism wrong" and DARVO - "it's really the poor women whose livelihoods you want to take away who are the real victims."

Top tip - all this continually involves trying to shift attention away from the men.

Why do these men think that it's all right to perve on naked women for money?

Why do some men think it's okay to have sex with a woman who would not consent in the absence of money?

Why do some men think it's okay to watch/have sex with women who may well have been trafficked?

Why do some men think it's okay to watch/have sex with women who are only doing this out of financial desperation?

What does this tell us about this type of man?

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 19/09/2019 08:52

A bit of Cool Girls ing too, but yeah, mostly astroturfing.

BarbaraStrozzi · 19/09/2019 09:05

Also always interesting to look at the time stamps on the posts and work out which part of the US the shills are posting from!

AgileLass · 19/09/2019 09:06

Over 200 breaches of the terms of the license were recorded in the 20 minutes of filming.