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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bunbury's guide to community disruptors part 4

999 replies

BarbaraStrozzi · 13/09/2019 08:33

Thought it was time for another of these. I'll just cut-and-paste the opening of the last thread:

The useful Bunbury Guide to Spotting Community Disruptors is constantly evolving.

The best research and advice is not to engage with community disruptors and trolls. As ever, if you suspect troll activity, report it to MNHQ.

This is a continuation of the first Public Service Announcement thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3438714-Bunbury-s-Public-Service-Announcement-2

Thread 3 was deleted with this note from MNHQ; We're sure there will be a Bunbury 4 around soon, but we'd be grateful if we could draw a line under the issues raised in this thread if there's to be a new one.

If and when you see threads plopped into FWR, especially a curious repeat of well worn topics, maybe check for poster history before engaging.

There are a number of posts/posters/threads that are reproduced on Twitter or Facebook to foment controversy using screen shots & flagging to either MNHQ to have threads or posters deleted. Sometimes, it’s used to approach commissioning editors with ideas for articles. It’s a tiresome tactic that we’ve had several community disruptor posters who themselves post the comments that they then highlight elsewhere as purported evidence of racism, religious intolerance, anti-men sentiments, or transphobia.

Some helpful links can be found in the first posts on thread 2 (linked above) but in essence FermatsTheorem recommended “that in the absence of a block/hide poster button, I suggest the following strategy (given that you're talking to the lurkers).

Do not name check the sealion. Instead, respond to a depersonalised paraphrase:

"It is sometimes erroneously suggested that blah. Blah is wrong for the following reasons (short and pithy). If you need more information re. debunking blah, here's a link."

Then (this next step is important to combat derailment) go back up thread to the last useful contribution to the discussion, make sure you do name check that contributor, and pick up the discussion from that point.”

OP posts:
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GrinitchSpinach · 20/01/2020 17:58

Was just re-reading Bunbury's greatest hits, and it put me in mind to post: To some extent I agree that it's valuable to engage bad-faith posters earnestly, for the benefit of lurkers. When they begin to Gish gallop, though, it may be time to let a thread die its natural death.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

GirlDownUnder · 23/01/2020 05:34

I'm assuming this thread was deleted (I can't imagine they'll reinstate it) cos it was just an attempt at a(nother) PP pile on

Guess Julie Bindel was onto something after all

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3801706-Guess-Julie-Bindel-was-onto-something-after-all

Thread deleted
Message from MNHQ: Taking this thread down to have a look in the background.
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testing987654321 · 23/01/2020 07:19

Oh I saw Gish Galloping on another forum, each time the newbie faux naive person posted they added a new argument, completely ignoring the responses to their previous points. Better people than me patiently argued until he got bored.

ArranUpsideDown · 23/01/2020 12:10

Better people than me patiently argued until he got bored.

Research indicates that this disrupts communities and I know a lotof people here think it has value.

It would be fascinating to know if the topic matters.

ScrimshawTheSecond · 23/01/2020 12:28

I am amazed at the patience of some of the women here.

Just not allowed our own spaces or voices, are we?

Well, I won't be rude but I won't engage either.

MoleSmokes · 23/01/2020 17:48

I am amazed at the patience of some of the women here.

100% agree - I have to walk away from many threads where I see others engaging politely and informatively with the most arrant, insulting, goady nonsense.

It obviously really annoys some people that they keep on throwing in what they imagine must be really juicy bait and no one takes a bite Grin

Just not allowed our own spaces or voices, are we?

The time and energy some people expend on trying to make FWR an unsafe space for women to talk amongst themselves about things that matter to them, in full public view no less, the uppity hussies!!! How they would just love to drive those conversations underground and make them totally samzidat.

ScrimshawTheSecond · 23/01/2020 19:06

How they would just love to drive those conversations underground and make them totally samzidat.

There will always be a way to keep having these conversations, though, this is the thing that must terrify all those people who know, deep down, that they are doing things that are either actively harming other people or opening the doors for others to do harm.

Mothers are never going to give up protecting their children, women are not going to stop looking out for each other.

GrinitchSpinach · 23/01/2020 20:14

Mothers are never going to give up protecting their children, women are not going to stop looking out for each other.

Hear, hear, Scrimshaw!

WrathofAsyouwereKIop · 23/01/2020 21:19

Perhaps we need a MN Child Safeguarding section displayed on the homepage so that we can discuss this more publicly and where everyone can see what's happening.

Cos it's a parenting site, right?

VickyEadieofThigh · 23/01/2020 21:21

Sorry I haven't been around much lately - very busy with my Twittering.

All hail Germain Bunbury - the protector of women's free speech!

thebloodykneeagain · 23/01/2020 21:43

WrathofAsyouwereKlop This would be a good thing.
A Vulnerable Adult Safeguarding section would be desirable, too. (ie: adult child)

WrathofAsyouwereKIop · 23/01/2020 21:55

thebloodykneeagain
Yes, a Vulnerable Adult Safeguarding section would also be a useful source of information for carers.

If this was on the homepage, surely the conversation wouldn't be hijacked by the GFs.

(But I am liking the nearly full LC part 2 if only for the blatant ridiculousness of the GFs)

TinseLANGel · 23/01/2020 22:01

Thank you for the tip about Gish Galloping, GrinitchSpinach thats really useful.

ScrimshawTheSecond · 23/01/2020 22:23

Ah, I thought Gish Galloping was a person! Thanks, that is very useful and good timing, too.

WrathofAsyouwereKIop · 23/01/2020 22:28

You can't debate with a goldfish.

thebloodykneeagain · 23/01/2020 22:37

WrathofAsyouwereKlop
I don’t understand the GF and the LC parts of your post?

WrathofAsyouwereKIop · 23/01/2020 22:37

Nobody's going for a number 3 then?

WrathofAsyouwereKIop · 23/01/2020 22:39

thebloodykneeagain
Goady fucker
Langcleg

janeskettle · 23/01/2020 22:40

Perhaps we need a MN Child Safeguarding section displayed on the homepage so that we can discuss this more publicly and where everyone can see what's happening

I agree.

Also, I hereby give permission to any feminist person here to metaphorically clonk me on the head when I get overwhelmed with niceness and patience and engage with GF's.

I really wish we had an ignore button.

WrathofAsyouwereKIop · 23/01/2020 22:40

And that came out all wrong. Lang was never a GF!

thebloodykneeagain · 23/01/2020 22:46

WrathofAsyouwereKlop
Thank you.
Been lurking for a while, but still getting used to posting etc.

TheBewildernessisWeetabix · 23/01/2020 22:47

The Gish Gallop is named for the person who excelled at it.

Justine has disavowed prioritizing any group's opinion over another. Therefore the opinions of anti Feminists and those who oppose safeguarding are entitled to respect.

ClosdesMouches · 23/01/2020 22:49

But I am liking the nearly full LC part 2 if only for the blatant ridiculousness of the GFs

YY. And the transparency is risible.

thebloodykneeagain · 23/01/2020 22:50

I absolutely never connected LC with being a GF in your post WrathofAsyouwereKlop

janeskettle · 23/01/2020 22:50

It's so weird that anti-feminists are encouraged on a Feminism and Women's Rights' board.

I highly doubt there are many pro-trans, pro-gender discussion spaces that openly insist the opinions of feminists be heard.