Sam Smith

[TimeLady]

Oh, Sam. It's OK to be a feminine man. Just be patient and wait for the right partner.

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-7458871/Sam-Smith-asks-loved-ones-refer-instead-he.html

This looks like the first steps towards transition to me, and I have a strong sense of foreboding. Sam sounds deeply unhappy.

Is there an increasing tendency for feminine gay men to be rejected by the community or the scene? Is this a contributory factor for why so many effeminate gay men are now declaring themselves to be trans?

I'm not sure, which is why I'm asking.

And any therapist suggesting he might be able to reconcile his two selfs would be accused of harmful conversion therapy.

Wouldn't it be conversion therapy if a therapist helped to convince a gay man that he was actually a woman?

Is there an increasing tendency for feminine gay men to be rejected by the community or the scene? Is this a contributory factor for why so many effeminate gay men are now declaring themselves to be trans?

I have read courtesy of some gay sites that masc4masc culture has become quite prevalent due to instagram and grindr. So I get the impression it is a bit of an issue for those that aren't pumped up gym types.

It must be months since he last came out as non binary.

Is there an increasing tendency for feminine gay men to be rejected by the community or the scene?

Is it harder for more effeminate gay men in an era when men's fashion conforms much more closely to sexist stereotypes than it did in my youth? From an entirely outside perspective the gay scene seems terribly image conscious but that may be my faulty perception.

(I'm also disappointed this thread isn't about former British number one tennis player Sam Smith. I really like her commentary/punditry)

has he dyed his hair blue yet?

I saw him love in Abu Dhabi last year, and he made a big point of pausing half way through to say ‘Abu Dhabi, I am an out and proud gay man and LOVE IS LOVE’ under a rainbow flag, as if this was some kind of heroic and rebellious statement.....(he obviously underestimated the size of the gay community here!). Anyway, that was less than a year ago and he was happy declaring himself as a man then.

I loved Sam Smith and now unfortunately I’m rolling my eyes wildly. I don’t care that he wants to wear heels or dresses. I think it’s just the fucking pronouns. Argh, the fucking pronouns 🤬

I can't roll my eyes hard enough.

Why can't we just go back to the days of Boy George and Marilyn who dressed how they wanted and were proud to be gay men?

I’d forgotten the new romantic ere. You’re right!! It’s all the ridiculous navel gazing and need for validation and acceptance. Just live your life FFS!!! No one cares.

He made a fool of himself at teh Oscars claiming to be the first out-gay man to get an award.

Not even the first out-gay British man. Dear dear Johnny Gielgud tut-tutting from his dear dear grave.

Not even the first out-gay British man. Dear dear Johnny Gielgud tut-tutting from his dear dear grave.

This made me laugh I read it in my head in the luvviest of voices

The whole phrase "came out as non-binary" REALLY annoys me. I understand totally if you are gay and haven't been revealing that publicly or to certain people, and then you come out. Because you have somewhere to come out from. "Coming out as non-binary" really means "decided to jump on this bandwagon since I heard about it last year and realised it was a great attention-seeking vehicle but saying I'm "coming out" means everyone will call me stunning and brave and I can demand special treatment"

Best response to being asked your pronouns? "Don't mind. Say what you see." The terror on the faces is highly amusing.

Genius, Lang. I'm stealing that one.

Is there an increasing tendency for feminine gay men to be rejected by the community or the scene? Is this a contributory factor for why so many effeminate gay men are now declaring themselves to be trans?

Not in my experience in the North East London scene. We have the opposite problem, people like me who are considered ‘passing as straight’ are more likely to receive comments. However that all started when straight people started going to gay clubs more and sadly a small minority target ‘femme’ guys very aggressively, both verbally and physically. My boyfriend has been on the receiving end a few times recently.

He also has the added pressure of fame, as someone with a famous ex, it’s really hard to form relationships as it’s to hard to know if someone likes you, or your fame. People who haven’t been in the industry really can’t understand just how poisonous it is.

He needs to listen to his friend Olly

What makes him so special that he warrants bad grammar? If he cannot accept 'he', he should should be happy with 'it'. "Met Sam Smith today, it seemed so happy". Perfect. JMO!

I simply find it very sad.

I see a man who is so uncomfortable in his own skin that he's denying who he is.

How the hell we have got to a point where there is not only a "pressure" to pseudo categorise our sex but furthermore being lauded for doing so is beyond me.

It’s interesting isn’t it, the way trans ideology has made it virtually impossible to be a feminine gay man (or a butch lesbian) without there being whispers that you must be trans and in denial? Or to struggle badly on the dating scene, as in the masc4masc thing.

Sam Smith obviously has a few issues to work out, and I don’t know whether to feel sorry for him or judge him for being a self indulgent, attention seeking knob.

“Bravely coming out for a second time” as NB is one thing, and that video where he danced and gyrated and talked about the “woman” he had inside him was quite another. Honestly, I think he’s grasping at straws to explain his depression but somehow I don’t believe a change of pronouns is the magic wand he seeks. Nor would transition, not that I believe he’s jeopardise his career by wearing dresses and wigs onstage.

But who knows? We live in interesting times.

The thing is Sam Smith could so much to 'widen the bandwidth of man'.

His latest video totally turns sex stereotypes on its head, with him and his male backing dancers dancing in a way that we only ever seen woman doing. It seems very progressive. But then he cancels all that out with all the 'non binary, I'm male and female' shite, because it's basically saying that the sexy dancing and grinding is his 'female' side. It's so fucking sexist!

If he said, yep I'm a bloke, I like men, I dance like this, I pose like this, I'm still a bloke, I'm still male, it would be much more revolutionary.

This is just the same aul sexist shite repackaged.

@propertyofhood

There are some doing it, but not enough at the minute. Interestingly one of the video’s below struggled to get screen time as a man licking a window screen was seen as too sexual, but apparently naked women in robin thickes video are fine!

On my Yahoo feed in relation to this:

“Non binary is the term used by people who do not identify with traditionally binary (male or female) roles, instead they take a more fluid approach to their gender,” explains Dr Helen Webberley who runs GenderGP.com, a website providing healthcare, support and information for transgender, non-binary and gender questioning individuals and those who care for them.

“Sometimes a non binary person may feel more male, sometimes more female, or they may find themselves somewhere in the middle.”

“Non binary is the term used by people who do not identify with traditionally binary (male or female) roles, instead they take a more fluid approach to their gender,” explains Dr Helen Webberley

So pretty much everyone, then. Thanks for that great insight Dr Webberley.

Absolutely @Propertyofhood

We need more feminine men in the public eye to be comfortable with being feminine men. I hoped for a while that Jonathan Van Ness, with his beard, heels and dresses, to have lots to say about “widening the bandwidth of man”. Nope, he came out as non-binary.

It’s such a retrograde step for society.