Debbie Hayton in the Times today

[Igneococcus]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/we-trans-women-should-compete-only-against-men-h0wj77f7x?shareToken=f73fdd7518558995018c6d0f180638f3

Can't see it shared yet but might be in one of the sports threads already.

Good article. If only those in charge of sports would listen.

Good article and the comments are supportive. I just wish someone with authority in the sports world was listening and prepared to act on behalf of natal XX women not men who value prizes over honour and fairness.

There's the usual delay with comments but I've not seen any that disagree so far,

Good on you Debbie.

There is one opposing commentator who always pops up.

Good piece, Hayton writes well.

The answer is indeed encapsulated in that last paragraph - not a new idea to any of us but good to see it clearly articulated in print.

Thank you Debbie.

I met Debbie once. She was interesting and personable. I had no problem whatsoever with her clothing or desire to live life as a woman. However I intuitively perceived her as a man. I am sure a lesbian would as well. I would not have a problem with Debbie using women's toilets as I knew her. It would be different if I did not. I would have real problems with my daughter playing contact sports against a younger Debbie, and if I were in a crisis, vulnerable, and wanting a women only space I would not want an (unknown) Debbie there.

In short, Debbie deserves respect for being honest and realistic. She is welcome to live her life as she wants, as long as what she wants does not take away from the rights of others. Or, as she effectively suggests in the article, cause them to ignore reality and withdraw their boundaries.

Well said again Debbie.

Great article and the comments seem totally in agreement.
Thank you Debbie.

The more people speaking up about this, the better.

But Hayton has no desire to compete in sports, therefore is happy to allow women women only spaces here.

A real ally would speak up and support all women only spaces, not just the ones they don't want to use.

ZuttZe

But Hayton has no desire to compete in sports, therefore is happy to allow women women only spaces here

A real ally would speak up and support all women only spaces, not just the ones they don't want to use
Excellent point

A real ally would speak up and support all women only spaces, not just the ones they don't want to use. as far as I’m aware, Debbie does.

Fucking man pops up in the comments to say "oh you silly women, you really should speak up about this"

OH RLY DUDE? THANKS FOR THE TIP WE HADN'T THOUGHT OF THAT.

@jessica DH is quite happy using women's bathrooms

And arghhh the comments!

Fawning over how wonderful it is someone has finally spoken up/ the voice of region/ thank goodness for Debbie as if women haven't been personally and professionally trashed for years for saying exactly this

Why does Debbie care about the rights of women in sport but not the rights of women in other sex segregated spaces. I am afraid I can't read anything Debbie has written without this thought being uppermost in my head.

I think Debbie has stopped using women’s loos now.

Debbie has publicly stated this. I have heard some blah blah anyone can say what they like and it may not be true, responses to this, but I'm inclined to take a strong ally's word for this.

I'd love to hear Debbie's wife speak.

DH is quite happy using women's bathrooms

Not accurate. There has been a comment from a longer conversation that is in circulation that is often used against Debbie and I myself had a very different impression based on it. I have seen the full conversation now. I have screenshots but don’t want to reopen an argument regarding that conversation amongst those involved. However I have read it and Debbie acknowledges they have got it wrong and why it’s an issue to ask your friends etc and that they’ve reflected on Miranda Yardleys example and concluded by saying they would no longer use women’s spaces unless invited, and specified not by canvassing opinion ( they acknowledged that is putting pressure on women ) but by being approached to attend etc

Hayton laid out quite clearly why female only sport was important in schools iirc in the TES article.

And toilets.

"DH is quite happy using women's bathrooms"

Not accurate

Alright since I'm not in DHs head I will speak from direct experience: I have observed DH use a women's only bathroom.

Maybe they've "reflected" on their position maybe not but I agree it's easy to speak out about spaces you weren't ever going to occupy.

I agree with the sentiment of the article but I disagree with a lot of what Debbie has said and done in the past. I have a good memory.

I can separate these things and be glad that The Times have published this as it helps peak trans readers but I cannot forgive DH for previous behaviour and for influencing policy to the detriment of school girls.

I'm not grateful to DH for bringing this matter to light and will not congratulate DH on this article. DH has this profile now and gets to say things and be listened to. Good for DH, but I'm not grateful for being thrown a bone.

Tbf, (And not that I agree with this...) but this article will get a lot more shares/ exposures because it’s written by a trans woman.

People didn’t start noticing Yaniv until Blaire White spoke up either.

Like it or not, we need trans allies at this stage.