Thousands of children forced to grow up in shipping containers

[stumbledin]

More than 210,000 children are estimated to be homeless across England, with thousands growing up in shipping containers, office blocks and B&Bs, often miles away from their schools, research shows.

Politicians and campaigners have accused ministers of a “catastrophic failure” to address the housing crisis after a study by the children’s commissioner found the true number of children living without a permanent home was considerably higher than government estimates.

Ms Longfield said: “Something has gone very wrong with our housing system when children are growing up in B&Bs, shipping containers and old office blocks.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/child-homeless-shipping-containers-office-blocks-housing-a9071726.html

What an indictment of the UK that in 21st century children are being put through this. And presumably this means that many single women have found themselves with no other option than to accept this is the only option they have.

To say children are being forced to grow up in shipping containers is purposely misleading. That there is a problem with housing for many families should be the issue here, not what the foundation materials for what may be perfectly good homes consist of.

In the country we grew up in, these are actually about the same size as many apartments. They're not ideal in the UK long term, but for somewhere clean, warm to sleep, it's better than some of the alternatives.

I also as a young teenager sofa surfed with my mother and sibling. One of these would've been so much nicer than a floor.

I watched the show on this, it included a tour of a families shipping container home, it was bigger than my last flat as it was four containers joined together and had better windows than my last single glazed flat.

The shipping containers look small - but also look properly converted, they look reasonable to me , certainly preferable to b&b - there are similar sized flats for sale for £££ in central London. It seems like a sensible idea - but of course initially sounds awful as we imagine them unconverted, so makes a good headline. Of course no family should be on the street, but we can’t just instantly house every family in difficulty in a newly decorated 4 bedroom furnished house with garden.

every single participant has made bad choices, it's not a blame game but there's a lot of backstories - whether it's alcohol, drugs or gambling that person chose that lifestyle initially

That....that is so fucking laughable you actually believe that that it's horrible.

Well, this thread certainly explains why we're in the position we're in, by giving us a window into the mindset of the sort of person who voted for the Priti Patels of this world.

Even if the parents made bad choices (and I would love to know where we can all get a crystal ball of the type that enables a woman to see that the apparently charming man she's marrying will in fact turn violent during pregnancy, for instance, or to see that ten years down the line they're going to develop a chronic illness that stops them being able to work), even if it's all down to the bad life choices of the parents, that's still no justification for a system that then punishes their children.

On top of making sure that you are sorted before having children, you should also look into a crystal ball and make sure that nothing devastating will happen in the future.

‘Cos, you know, no one ever wakes up one day and discovers they are homeless or they have to run.

They're not "being done properly" though are they? Like others have said temporary housing is of course needed, but the fact that so many are in need of emergency housing in the first place is a problem. The fact that people are then stuck in "temporary" emergency housing for longer than a few days or weeks (try months, years) is a problem. The fact that people with severe problems (addiction, violent behaviour, psychosis) end up here often side by side with the most vulnerable is a problem. You can't just stack humans up like battery chickens. That's terrible for the chickens let alone the people. What outcomes is that likely to have long term? More problems with mental health, more exposure to violence, access to drugs, more trauma, more abuse, repeating and worsening of cycles. And a lot of these places (particularly the office block type) aren't safe, fire and disease outbreaks are highly likely to be a problem.

It's a symptom of the failure of other support systems and a bodge fix. We're supposed to be one of the richest countries in the world FFS. Where are our mental health services, women's refuges, rehab facilities, community outreach?

So those saying it's always down to poor choices, what would you say to a woman who had 2 children, had just left her emotionally, financially and sexually abusive partner and was forced to live in hideous temporary accommodation (basically a filthy 1 room bedsit with no cooking facilities) with 2 children under 5 until something permanent was found.

Would you say 'well dear, if you hadn't allowed him to groom you from the age of 14, none of this would have happened. If you hadn't allowed him to forcibly impregnate you twice your life would be fine and dandy'

Or would you concede that sometimes, maybe quite a lot of the time, it's not down to poor life choices at all, it's just you've been dealt a shitty hand.

Of course shipping containers can be made nice and I'm sure so can ex office blocks but these aren't are they? Did you read the article, follow the other links with examples?

I don't think anyone has said it is worse than B&B accommodation which is just as bad although at least has fire regulation.

It’s the sheer numbers that shocked me. And even if you’re a heartless bastard who thinks they deserve everything they get because they’re feckless, do you not want to solve it?
It shocks me that people believe that people choose this. I was another thread a while ago where posters believed that we live in a meritocracy. I guess it’s easier to think of yourself as a hard-working winner if you can label others as feckless losers.

Click bait articles like this cause harm by stigmatising containers.

I urge anyone dismissing containers to look up container houses, look how stunning they can be. The container is the basic structure not the end product.

Please do not stigmatise these houses and as a knock on effect those in them.

Oh oops, sorry - I thought the article in the OP was this one. A better summary (wiuth more links) IMO:

www.bbc.com/news/education-49412835

My family was made homeless when I was a child and I’m so grateful that we were given a proper home. It was a little flat on a bad estate that was later demolished, but it was a home and a community and stable.

We were homeless because we had to flee my dad who had become a violent alcoholic after my brother died, and the rogue landlord of the only house my mother could afford on the wages of the night job she’d taken so she could look after us in the day evicted us after the house was declared unfit for human habitation (because the landlord had asked Environmental Health to come out in the mistaken belief he’d be given a grant!). But clearly it was all due to poor choices, so we should have ended up in a shipping container.

We know that Mediocre - just as we know that high rise flats in and of themselves aren't terrible (there are some particularly lovely ones next to the Tate Modern). And B&Bs are lovely when you've booked a nice one in Cornwall for a long weekend (but you wouldn't want to stay in even the nicest one for six months).

The problem is with substandard examples of these - too small, not converted properly, not insulated properly, and with people just being warehoused in them. And with right to buy and public housing stock not being replaced as it's sold off. And with creating a system with tax breaks for buy to let so the economists running things see housing as an investment giving you 8 to 10% ROC a year, then are surprised when people on minimum wage get priced out of the market, then get surprised when the capital city develops a shortage of nurses and paramedics and fire fighters and teachers because no-one on an ordinary income can afford to live there any more.

When you say you can’t ‘stack humans up like battery chickens’ have you you forgotten about flats?
I looked at the photos of the flats & did some further research - they look fine, a lack of storage but that is the case in lots of small houses. And they were only stacked 2 high. The containers provide a quick way of construction- like a mobile home. I’ve lived in a mobile home myself for 6 months, of course they are small and not what you’d choose forever but they are fine.
Bertie - what are your realistic alternative suggestions?

Some information on container housing

www.mobilbox.co.uk/container-housing

@Idaho999 Bad choices, are you actually serious? Any parent can end up in this situation, anyone can become ill, disabled, be made redundant etc. Unless you have enough money in the bank to raise a child from birth to 18 you are vulnerable to poverty.

We simply need to replenish the council housing stock that was sold off and until we do that (and build extra too, as the population goes ever upwards), there will not be enough affordable housing to go round and people will be unable to pay private rents.

And yes, I totally agree about all those single dads who just fuck off and leave the mums to raise the kids. It can be impossible to get any money from them, the CBA is completely toothless if the dad is skint, or he disappears, or he's self-employed and lies about his income.

There have always been people who, for whatever reason, make bad choices in life. Maybe they were parented poorly themselves, maybe they had a shit education, maybe they have poor self esteem, MH issues or didn't really have many choices in the first place - it doesn't mean they or their DC should be forced to live in a box.

To go back in time about 10-15 years and undo all the cuts? :(

No but really - I honestly believe this has been caused by insufficient support/funding in other areas. And will get worse after Brexit. It makes me sad and afraid for the UK. To me it seems as though the massive amount of homeless/insecurely housed people is a symptom of the failures and the government/councils who are responsible for the safety of these people are "treating" the symptom by making more storage rather than by looking into the causes of homelessness and trying to reduce the number of homeless in the first place.

As I said I was under the impression this was a different arrticle which had used different illustrations and some of the office block conversions do look almost like battery cages, they aren't simply office blocks made into flats, but single rooms on corridors similar to a travelodge type hotel. The "container city" in the independent article is not so bad, but the independent isn't a very good source these days IMO.

A flat is nothing like a tiny room on a long corridor with little management. I live in a flat myself and it's one if my favourite places I've ever lived. I wouldn't feel secure or happy in that situation though, especially knowing my neighbours were volatile. I've also worked in a place that did background checks on people and there are knock on effects from having your address be a halfway house, it's really hard to get employment or places in support services because of where you live.

Did you miss this?

Of the 2,420 families known to be living in B&Bs in December 2018, a third had been there for more than six weeks - despite this being unlawful.

Analysis in the report, released on Wednesday, found that in 2017, around two in five children in temporary accommodation had been there for at least six months.

Around one in 20 - an estimated 6,000 children - had been there for at least a year.

Temporary accommodation is sometimes needed but people aren't able to move on - why not?

The shipping containers are fine. If you saw the early articles you’d have seen the very nice insides. Clearly the response wasn’t what the journos wanted because on the articles I read the interior photos has vanished by the end of the day.

I saw those photos and thought “wish they’d been available when I was starting out”.

I also read the complaints of residents. Apparently there’s little circulation in them (but the relevant residents don’t want to open the door/window at all which would solve the issue like I’m any other house. They get cold in winter (like stone houses and other accommodation). They get hot in summer (again, like other properties). Etc.

Tl/dr: the converted shipping containers are actually perfectly fine and this is a pearl clutching exercise.

Fermats

Rather than stigmatising a viable housing option we need to regulate it. We have housing regs for pernanent structures we need to push for regulations for modular housing of this nature.

Containers are usually classed as a temporary structure. I not up on latest building regs so if im wrong apologies.

A container is in effect a steel frame construction, how it is joined, clad/ insulated, layed out etc is down to the designer/architect like any other building. We need to ensure goid quality design, which will lead to a long term solution.

People do literally wake up one day and find themselves in this situation, even married people. One friend was in a cramped but adequete private rental and the upstairs flat flooded into theirs. They didnt have a deposit saved up as they werent expecting to move and they were given emergency housing which was a b and b two long bus rides away. She couldnt get to her job so had to cut her hours to when the buses ran. It took 6 months to sort and easily could have spiralled.

www.itv.com/news/2019-08-21/homeless-families-despair-at-temporary-shipping-containers-promoted-as-flats/

Very nice, honestly? I particularly liked the description by one child in another article about water dripping onto him while he sleeps and eating on the floor as there’s just no other room. But his mother made poor choices so what should he expect besides unsuitable, unstable accommodation?