Trans Widows Escape Committee 3: Rise of the Trans Widows

[TinselAngel]

Less than two years have passed since the first TWEC thread and now its time for a third.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

1. You are not alone
2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

Regulars- do post here to get the thread going.

Lurkers- now would be a great time to de-lurk.

I have a massive ache in my chest everytime I actually stop and think about my situation. For my own health I need to forgive dh for what he's done. I feel like I'm asking myself to do the impossible but the only way it's going to stop killing me is if it's no longer part of me

Too, I remember having physical symptoms like that at the end of my marriage. I used to put music on in the bathroom and cry in the bath. It felt like my chest might explode.

I think what you are describing is a symptom of grief. It's also how I felt when I lost my wonderful Dad. (Although losing my Dad was worse!)

It's easy to see where the term "heartbroken" comes from as that is how it feels.

You're grieving the future that you thought you would have.

I would suggest that rather than going for forgiveness, you go for acceptance. What he has done shouldn't necessarily be forgiven. Also some anger can help to give you the energy to do what you need to do, and I don't think you can have forgiveness and anger at the same time.

I think acceptance is more achievable than forgiveness at this stage.

@rettstar I'm glad you found us and hope reading the threads has made you feel that you are not on your own.

How wonderful that you had a baby at 44! I should think you and your husband have every chance now you have been able to recognise the source of your difficulties.

My counselor last year told me I would benefit from a diagnosis of CPTSD but I don't need a diagnosis.

My view on that would be that if you did have a diagnosis, it would probably enable you to access help and support more easily. eg if you needed reasonable adjustments in order to work?

[Post edited by MNHQ at poster's request]

Tinsel I'm not a transwidow, just a well-wisher who lurks from time to time. Always with huge sympathy and respect.

Sorry! Last message was for @Rettstar

@TinselAngel

Thanks... I'm looking at a few options at the moment as far as therapy goes. EMDR has been suggested to me by a friend and I'll talk to my therapist early in the new year.

A diagnosis to be honest would mean I could possibly have to reveal it in job applications. When I graduate I'll be an ancient lady and don't wish to add any more barriers to employment other than my age. Given that positions I am eligible for are government funded, I would need to reveal certain conditions according to legislation, so.. nothing in writing for me.

I can get through this, my GP, an amazing woman, told me that I am a survivor to get this far with my sanity intact and she loves the fact I am getting help.

I honestly thought I would be smashed for saying what I did in my last paragraph for my first post, but it's nice to see that's not the case. I am worried about my friends who are allies as am I, but I have a line.

I have a good friend who is transitioning MTF, but before she started, she's undergone extensive genetic counseling and counseling and she's intersex. She was a beautiful human being before transitioning and she's not changed during transition either. She's the same person.

There's still a lot I don't understand, but what I do know, is my experience seems pretty typical for women who have had partners transition and there needs to be more support for us out there.

This feeling in the chest sounds like grief. When my husband left (I'm not a trans widow) the sharpest pain was the grief for the life I expected to lead and now would not. Elderly couples walking hand in hand would reduce me to tears. The pain in my chest was so sharp I had it checked out as it might have been a heart attack but it wasn't.

I'm a year in and still grieving. I am nowhere near forgiveness but knowing that denial, bargaining, anger and depression are all part of this experience helps me be kind to myself.

Trans widows, from what I have read here, are experiencing trauma and complex grief. Not only that but their voices are silenced as they don't fit the dominant narrative of stunning and brave. Be kind to yourselves sisters.

@mostlydrinkstea

This is grief yes, it's one of the worst things you can go through and it's so hard. Someone described grief to me as the "grief in a box" concept after I had one of the worst miscarriages I had ever experienced. That the box is the same size and grief is a large ball that touches the sides a lot.

The grief ball then gets smaller and doesn't always touch the sides of the box as often, but when it does, the whole feeling comes back. As time goes on, I have found this is true. When I think about the loss I experienced in 2015, the acute pain is RIGHT there, but it goes away again, but it will always be there.

I honestly thought I would be smashed for saying what I did in my last paragraph for my first post, but it's nice to see that's not the case.

Have a good look around Mumsnet Feminist chat, you'll feel right at home!

This thread aims to be a space where women are supported to leave and to recover. We deliberately make no attempt here to understand trans ideology, and your views about your ex will be respected. (Unless you were to think he's a stunning and brave woman on a journey to being his authentic self).

Tea, regarding trauma and complex grief... I was diagnosed with and am being treated for complex grief. I was dealing with so much at one time. Complex grief is all about too many things at once so you can't untangle and resolve any of these things on your own. I also think it's a likely outcome for many transwidows.

I'm doing better overall. But there's still a lot of grief. I'm dealing better with the paradox of missing the man I married while wanting nothing to ever do with the person he has become.

Somebody just shared this on twitter and it is so typical of what we've all been saying.

@TinselAngel

I saw this a few years ago and until then, didn't really care for Kris Jenner. But, Caitlyn said and did things that were really triggering for me and made me realise that Kris probably was going through the same things we have. I experienced empathy for her and understood her pain. From what I've seen since then, there's been considerable re-writing of history by Caitlyn about her marriage, and I experienced that with my Ex.

Watching that clip today made me a bit angry but, it's a great illustration of the grief that wives go through and the selfishness displayed by MTF transitioners.

All the Caitlyn Jenner stuff is hard for me to watch. It's all the same bullshit. "If you were more accepting of me, we could have stayed together." My ex did that to me too. Until I finally lost my temper and told him what a shitty husband he had been and that he deserved nothing more from me, ever.

Hi everyone, so good to hear from you all. OMG Caitlyn Jenner is so unempathic, takes no responsibility, is so aggressive and 'male' in their dialogue. Playing the victim, no interest in her feelings. So ironic he labels her the 'martyr'! It's quite extraordinary. The lack of insight into the impact on others. Kris is so reasoned and courteous. And mentions 'missing Bruce'. The arrogance and selfishness is quite incredible on C's part. And horribly familiar. My ex has never apologized to me or my kids for how he behaved, and saw absolutely no problem in just doing what he wanted, without any regard for others.

Agree Quinn, this is bereavement where the lost person is still walking around in clacky heels.
Rett, really like the 'grief in a box' image; it so describes the surge back into it, which I for example feel when I come face-to-face with my ex in the street. I feel completely derailed and distressed. But it lasts a shorter time each time and you bounce back more readily.
I felt as if I couldn't breathe, all the time, for months during the experience. It's hugely physical; I really didn't feel my lungs could open wide enough. My sleep was terrible for around two years.

tea you are quite right; self-care is the most important thing. Keeping your focus on what's important (your health, kids, finances, job) and trying to allow yourself not to worry that this isn't passing quickly enough, or life isn't all in place yet. My counsellor would wryly note that not only did I feel terrible, but I spent a lot of time beating myself up about how I 'shouldn't ' feel terrible (I still feel I shouldn't feel distress/pain/grief/rage after several years). Nobody wrote a rule book for this experience; it's really isolating and shocking. And I didn't know anyone had written a poem like that, how moving.

Start good to hear from you. Re. the double life, my ex did things like dress as a woman with the kids, then get up the next day as a man to take them to his parents. Really mind-blowing for them. I suspect the only way these men manage to run the double life is to the exclusion of everything else, hence the 'bubble', the lack of regard for others, the single-mindedness. You won't be able to change him, or ever perhaps understand why he is as he is and does what he does. At some point accepting you will never know, and can't do anything about it, is actually liberating, although bewildering and paralyzing at first.

You are all wonderful. I'm so glad people are popping up.

And today, Caitlyn trashtalks her stepdaughter Khloe on TV. Essentially re-writing history implying that Khloe stopped talking to her due to being trans when in had to do with the Vanity Fair article that was talked about in that clip we've seen and the book that was written.

@socialworker222 - I started in a forum to support partners / former partners of transitioners (both MTF and FTM) and ultimately, there was only two of us at the time who had left our exes. The women in relationships at the time (2005) were routinely verbally abused by their partners and hormones were used as an excuse.

Many threads were derailed with comments about "whataboutmeisms" and what I noticed was female partners of transitioning MTF were abused routinely online more, than women who were with female partners transitioning to male. This thread is a wonder. I don't feel out of place here.

I had friends who told me that I only loved the gender not the person, but as I said to my friends "An asshole is still an asshole, regardless of gender". My ex was a hero in many people's eyes for being "brave". All I could think about, was how miserable he made me.

It's lovely to see and meet people who have experienced something similar to me.

So familiar, Rett. There's a reason alternative lived experience is silenced and vilified. It''s interesting to me that Jenner continues to be so victimy/blaming and unempathic. It suggests the wonder of transition hasn't really made life 100% wonderful. No thought on consequences, no acceptance that you can't control how other people feel. It interests me that my ex is still a pompous, uncooperative and arrogant asshole in his behaviour and communications with me. If he was 100% joyous in his new life, you think he'd be less uptight about stuff and more compassionate (I certainly feel 'nicer' when I'm happy). These individuals mess up other people's lives and expect absolutely no negative consequences.

Interesting Rett to see more insensitive and harmful trashing of female relatives. If someone can't see that it's not transphobia to be badly affected by a father or stepfather transitioning, that shows an enormous empathy gap. And the stepdad-in-a- teddy VF article is very conveniently sidestepped...

I watched Shannon Thrace' TedTalk she did in 2017.

It doesn't mirror my experience, but does touch on similar issues - the demands to be accepted as a woman, the isolation, the tranny porn, the cross dressing etc. I experienced domestic abuse in the relationship as well, but more because I was female than anything else.

I'm seeing my counselor on Wednesday and I think I might have the courage to talk about my experience in that 11 year abuse relationship. I guess I'll find out when I turn up.

Hope the counselling goes well, Rett.

I've just registered, and am new to Mumsnet although not new to the trans spouse/ trans widow experience. I apologize if this summary is long, but I'm three and a half years out from my ex's declaration, and I'd like to at least give an outline of my experiences.
My now-ex declared out of the blue in March 2015 when he was 58 that he was "a woman in a man's body," intended to transition, and began regaling me with his demands ("I don't know why you can't help me with this; gender is what you do!"; "Should be be intimate again, I want to be punished. I'm a masochist. I want to play the part of a woman; I want to be penetrated."). At the time of his declaration, he told me that he had been "exploring" this possibility for three years, including with a former student, a woman, one with whom he'd long had what I considered an improper relationship (at one point, for instance, she asked if he would obtain an online minister's degree so he could marry her and her fiance, a wedding that didn't take place).

At that time, I told him then that I didn't want to be married to a transwoman and that I wanted to divorce. I also told him he needed to see a therapist and stop using me as one. He went to a trans therapist who was moving him toward his stated goal of transitioning.

Meanwhile I was in shock, trying to process the information, looking back at our life together wondering how I could not have known, etc etc, all the usual reactions, and grieving the end of my marriage and the future I'd work so hard for (we'd been married 32 years at that time).

About two months after his declaration, he came home from therapy one day, lay on the bed, clutched a pillow, and said, "It's going to be so hard. Won't you lie down here and comfort me?" Instead of telling him what I now know to be the right thing to have said, which was "We're divorcing and I am no longer available of the proper person from whom to solicit wifely care" I lay down and held him.
Huge mistake. This "comfort" led to more in the next few weeks, and then sex. And suddenly we were at the "how can we salvage the marriage and make this work" point.

At two and a half months after his declaration, I was due to leave town for two and a half months (I'm an academic, as is my now-ex, and had spent my summer breaks away for some years, with his blessing--another one of those "oh, now I know why" realizations).

Over the summer instead of working on my writing project I combed the internet looking for information on transness, while fielding sexts and unwanted selfies from my then-husband, as well as his over-the-top declarations of love. Eventually I found the work of Bailey, Blanchard, and Lawrence on autogynephilia, compared my then-husband's "symptoms" to Bailey's typology, and Bingo! They all fit. I emailed my then-husband to say "I think I've found an explanation for what you are." He responded in a fury (displaying exactly the "wounded narcissism" Lawrence describes), but eventually decided that yes, he was an autogynephile.

I now think he did this because he had realized that he was never going to pass as a women, and did not want the experience of living as "an ugly woman" (his phrase); nor did he want to give up his prestige and male privilege at work. So he decided that because autogynephilia is a sexual paraphilia, he could confine his urges to the bedroom with me and wouldn't come out but remain closeted to all but me. (I should add that in his phase of a rush to declare himself trans and begin living as if he were a woman, he had asked me to begin telling our colleagues at the university...I refused.)

He visited me for a few days in the summer, and at that time we had sex. Lots of it, with him living out his sexual fantasies. He seemed to vacillate between a vision of himself as a hetero sexpot passive "I need you to f*ck me" womanstockings and garter belts, shaving (he asked me to shave his legs), dildosand as a lesbian. He actually had two names for these two female personas.
Before he returned home he declared that he loved me and wanted to spend the rest of his life with me. I was skeptical, as for the three years before his declaration, he had made it clear that he was unhappy and "things needed to change" for us to remain married. I told him I wanted to try, but it would require transparency and communication, especially as he would not rule out any future changes to his person, like hormones, and I needed to be able to make decisions about my future.
I returned in the fall to house/cat-sit for a colleague who was living abroad for a term. He stayed in our house, but came over, almost every night, to indulge his sexual fantasies, which as time went became less and less satisfying to me. He also began acting out behind my back, although I'd said that a condition for me was that
When I returned home at Christmas-time, I saw just how complete his home masquerade had become when I was not living there. His behavior and dressing was not confined to the bedroom, and he began trying to accustom me to that His thinking had also become more bizarre, too, and he expected me to accommodate that as well: "women are short," he declared (shades of the "women are smooth" claim I'd heard that summer when he wanted me to shave his legs), and he was tall, so I had to stand on the stairs to kiss him; and because "women are short and men are tall" when a woman tilts her head back to kiss a man she is exposing her throat, being vulnerable." Everything, that is, was gendered.
Any question of mine, any discomfort, was met by him as an attack, and eventually he clammed up and refused to talk at all. Communication ceased, to be replaced by his acting in secret behind my back and by attempts to manipulate me into acceptance of more and more.
It took me about a year and a half from his initial declaration to know that I couldn't stay, and about another year and a half before I finally said I'm done, and moved out. Our divorce happened eight months after I moved out, and that was a year ago.
That's enough, I guess, although as all of you who have been through this know, I've only skimmed the surface of my experience.

@WalkedAway - holy hell - that post was so triggering for me.

I almost felt like throwing up. Are you ok? Are you getting counseling?

I am seeing a counselor for my ptsd brought about by my trauma with my Ex and some of the things you've written definitely I can relate to.

Did you and your husband have children? I know that's a personal question. I hope you have a support network for yourself, but from what I have been reading in this group, there's a bunch of really supportive women here.

Nice to meet you.

@RettStar

Sorry you were triggered by my post. What we live with is traumatic, which those who haven't been through it simply can't fathom; one big reason I wanted to come and participate here, and share my story, is that I think it's important for there to be a place where our stories are collected. Our individual stories are important, as is the collective portrait that emerges from them.

I've been to counseling in the past, in the worst of the experience, and I've been active at the Straight Spouse Network Forum for three years now. Good friends have seen me through, once I came out of his closet about a year and a half in to the nightmare.

As for children: yes, we have one. A son who was a young adult when my now-ex dropped his trans bomb. At the time, my son's welfare was my primary concern, and I kept asking my husband, "What about [our son's name]?" He was so wrapped up in his delusions and desires that he wouldn't even address the question, as if I hadn't asked it or our son was irrelevant to what he wanted.

Later, when after three years I worked up the courage finally to leave, when my ex was firmly in his closet and intending to stay there, my ex became furious when I told him I wanted an honest relationship with my son and wanted him to know why we were getting divorced. In order to protect his closet my now-ex's reaction was to unleash an avalanche of rage and to declare I cared nothing for our son because this information would damage him. I allowed him to browbeat me into a watered down explanation, in which I told our son "People don't just get divorced after 35 years because 'they're happier apart.' There's an issue of your dad's which is his to tell you. He knows I'm telling you this. You can ask him about it, but he's already told me that if you ask he's going to say 'Some things are private.'" It's been a year and a half since I said that, and although I still would like our son to know the truth, somehow it gets more difficult, not less, to tell him as time goes by. Wondering what if anything my son knows or guesses eats at me, because I don't know what he might think of me if he does know.

@walkedaway

You spoke of your experience and the impact it has had on you and your family, I hurt for you in so many ways - for everyone who has experienced it.

Today in counseling I understood one of the reasons for being so vulnerable and not seeing the flags when I started the relationship with my ex. My parents were ambivalent at best when it cae to parenting. Physical punishment (eye for an eye) was done when we were small, then when we got older, we were told off and ignored for days on end. I was terrified of my parents and their anger so I did as little as I could to provoke them. We were also told, never to tell anyone outside of the family our problems, so we never spoke about issues outside of the house.

So, it was with this training that I became an easy target for an abuser. Already cowed into submission by my parents, I feared and still fear the anger of my spouse and will behave in a submissive manner (this is why we're going to marriage counseling and I'm in counseling for my trauma). It allowed my ex is manipulate me so completely, that I still don't understand what happened to me. Just that I was abused profoundly.

Now that I have an understanding of some of the mechanisms behind how I was manipulated, it's going to be easier I think from now on for me to move forward.

I volunteer a lot, I look after friends who need help and my counselor agreed with my thought that I need to pull back on my activities and start looking after myself. I feel incredibly uncomfortable doing this, that I am being very selfish. However, self care is something I must learn to do for myself.

This forum, as you've mentioned is critical for women who've had our experience. I didn't realise that there were women out there, that had experienced what we have. That we were not allowed a space to say how we feel and discuss our realities. The counselor today wasn't telling me I was wrong to feel the way I did, but that I was allowed to feel the way I did because this is my lived experience.

This thread, is a beautiful way to express our lived experiences and be supported.

Welcome Walked. Glad you found us. This has been a lifeline for me throughout my very difficult years moving through this. Sounds like you tried very hard to accommodate your ex and stay together; I hope it's a relief to have left and that you have no regrets. Your ex sounds immensely selfish and lacking in empathy or concern for you; this is an experience shared by many women on this thread.
It interests me that your ex understood that his truth would damage your son, despite him expecting you to see it as entirely reasonable and something you should accommodate without complaint or distress. My ex believed it would be absolutely no big deal, let alone damaging, for his teens; he was wrong on both counts.
That sounds hard with your son; I found my teenagers really didn't want to think about or confront what their father had done, so your son may be in a state of denial, or avoidance. As for what he would think of you, I spent a lot of time feeling upset that others (his very woke workmates, his family) would be criticizing me for leaving/being narrow-minded/not loving enough, and other nonsense... but of course you know you tried, the situation was impossible, and you could not stay. Not wanting to stay with a male partner doing this is entirely reasonable and often essential self-preservation; just as late transitioners sometimes say they had to do it, or they would kill themselves, many of the women who leave have to do it, for their own sanity and survival.
Couldn't agree more, Rett, on lived experience. Ours is as valid as and equal in importance to our ex-partners', our definition of ourselves is as valid, and our right to choose our identity and our lives is equal. They don't like it, but if you spout views on living your true self, and equal rights, you look a bit, well, intolerant and unkind, to deny women in our shoes ours.

Thanks to the newbies for sharing your stories so eloquently.

A few things strike me, firstly the disingenuousness of a fetish where you claim you want to be submissive but are really absolutely in control of the situation and are forcing the other party to play along.

Secondly the more stories that are recorded here, the more evident it becomes that women should leave these relationships sooner rather than later. I think pretty much all of us say we should have left sooner.

How awful for a husband to create a situation where the wife feels that if she tells her child about what's happening, it is her telling the child that will do the damage rather than the behaviour of the perpetrator. This is so manipulative.

It is really important having these stories in one place as PP said.