Trans Widows Escape Committee 3: Rise of the Trans Widows

[TinselAngel]

Less than two years have passed since the first TWEC thread and now its time for a third.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

1. You are not alone
2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

Regulars- do post here to get the thread going.

Lurkers- now would be a great time to de-lurk.

Just to say you are fabulous Tinsel 😘

Anyway, back on topic and responding to @AWomanIsEnough I wonder if all trans widows are put off dating for life. (I'm tempted not to bother again, another relationship down the line).

Can anybody tell us comforting tales of successful subsequent relationships? Anybody at all?

It's an interesting topic. I know I said I was planning on staying with 'd'h for 12 months but a few weeks ago I was finding it incredibly difficult. I spoke with my counsellor who repeatedly told me to try a temporary split even though I kept saying I won't do that. It's not fair on anyone, especially the DC, when we separate it will be for good. I certainly can't imagine leaving and going back More and more I'm realising that she is a terrible counsellor. She also said it might help if I could picture being with someone else in the future. Unsurprisingly, I can't but I wouldn't have thought many people can before leaving their marriage.

Sorry, that's more a post about how crap my counsellor is!

Don't apologize Tears. Counselling and finding the right person is really important. I was very lucky to find a properly non-judgemental, non-directive, challenging counsellor who let me feel my feelings and voice them. No pressure not to 'misgender', no stance on keeping me married.
Saved me from breaking. Regular counsellors should not direct or advise, but let you work out what you want to do. Sounds like you nonetheless are not doubting that when you leave it will be permanent. Sorry you've found it tough. Staying, even temporarily, must be very tough (I ran right away but even the few months I had to be with him were terrible so can't imagine what you're going through.
Re. imagining a future, I guess it is important to hold in mind that there will be a life for you on the other side. But I'm too fat and tired and feel too 'marked' to get back out there. It's so unusual, and damaging. But I do have days where I feel I will want a (decent, honest) man one day and I take even those moments of interest as progress in this very slow story.

I disagree with your Counsellor Too, in that I increasingly think what we (and all women) need to be able to do is to imagine ourselves not being in a relationship at all, and us being OK with that.

If we could make our peace with that possibility, we'd put up with far fewer shitty relationships.

I'm not saying we should decide never to be in a relationship again just that we should learn to be OK with that as a possibility.

If you do end up on your own, you will be fine, I promise.

I'd love a good relationship, but the thought of having to explain any of what I've been through is daunting.
It all sounds crazy, because it is crazy.

Agree. It's hard to feel confident presenting ourselves to a new partner as separate people unwittingly involved with long-term liars and fantasists. It is so intimate and difficult to separate oneself from. I guess the first task is to really separate, get your head round not being responsible for an ex's beliefs and behaviour. The holy grail for me may be to accept that my ex isn't the person I thought he was, and isn't some bright shiny new person he purports to be... and was in fact always a questionmark. And then to head back out there with some sort of detached humour, and put it behind me. We have it easier than our kids. They have the betrayal and bewilderment about who the f* their father is/was. We can ditch them if we're lucky enough to be financially able to. But that will always be their father and the painful legacy of that male role model,supposedly a source of selfless parental care and love who let them down so catastrophically in my case, is with them for life.

i haven’t posted for a while, but I’ve been lurking. Soon to be ex and I have quit marriage therapy and he gave me a formal separation agreement in July. He’s continuing to do more and more dressing in front of the kids and of course less and less concern about how it makes them feel. Right now we are trying to hammer out some custody arrangement since he isn’t doing anything wrong (by societies standard, not by mine). I continue to see how absolutely selfish his behavior has become. My children seem to be an after thought!

I invited him over to celebrate our daughters 14th birthday to have cake and ice cream. He flat out refused saying he was uncomfortable at my house (the house we built together). I responded saying I wasn’t comfortable either, but I was going to try for our daughter. My daughter was gutted! Then 3 weeks later was my son’s 11th birthday. I didn’t even bother to invite him. He in turn didn’t even bother to call his own son on his birthday. He has also opted to ride a biking event this weekend instead of a his scheduled visit with his kids. I’m disgusted that this is who I married and had kids with as I would not even be friends with who he’s become!

I have said this process is like infidelity, divorce and a death all rolled into one. He has happily moved on with a new woman who happens to be himself and basically has killed the person he used to be and the one I loved! Still not sure how to move on after 20 years of marriage and 4 kids. I’m in a fog most days and just taking care of the kids we had together.

I have had the financial affidavit paperwork for over a month and am overwhelmed with filling it all out. This is the paperwork to determine the amount of alimony I will receive. I don’t have a job (been a stay him mom for 18 years) and no degree so it’s important! They want current expenses and proposed. I’m scared to ask the lawyer questions as every time I do it costs money. I’ve already had to borrow $5,000 for the retainer from my parents and don’t want to ask for any more!

Life seems to be at a stand still and anxiety and stress are at an all time high! I know it will get better, but it seems to be worse than it was when all this crap came out!

Can I just have a rant today? I don't want to give too much detail, but I am heartily sick of being surrounded by people questioning their gender identity. I have it at home, and I am also dealing with it at work, and if it's any consolation, young are old, they are all the same. They all think it's just about them, and it's really pissing me off. Not only do they pull the trans thing, but all the other stuff, depression, anxiety, self harm, I have no issue with people who feel that they are trans, but stop ramming it down my throat all the time, I get it, you don't need to carry on trying to prove a point. I remember I worked somewhere once and a gay community were there, staff complained about the gay couples kissing in public, and they said "it's because we are gay" and it was NO, it's because we don't want to see any couples of any sex all over each other like a rash, I don't care what you want to be, just let me be me and YOU accept that.

Hi Kit, how well you sum it up ( have said this process is like infidelity, divorce and a death all rolled into one). Sounds like daily life is hard going at the moment. The disappointment, astonishment and anger that mothers feel when fathers do this - absolutely putting themselves first, and not giving care or thought to the children - is overwhelming. Your kids are lucky to have you as a loving, responsible and consistent parent.
I hope someone on here can help you regarding the money/lawyer stuff; I think you're from the US? You just need to press on, make sure you consider and document EVERY expense/need of you and the children (there are lots of good lists online for 'normal' divorces), and stay organised and focussed. Can a friend or family member help you to sit down at a set time and tackle the paperwork? Could you do a little bit every day or something like that? At some point you will properly be free and have some control over his contact, your finances, and your life. But you're in the really hard bit where he prances about in a state of self-absorbed delusional entitlement. I feel so for your children, and for you having to see this. Hang on in there; we have your back.

mirikles, when you feel like you're up to your eyes with a particular issue at home, I think it can make you feel less tolerant in the rest of your life, over things you'd normally have no problem with.

It's really hard going KitKat... Getting through the financial paperwork will be a huge relief. Maybe do what you can with a friend or someone helpful, to at least get cracking. You will worry about the future but try to hold your nerve. Sounds like you have to press on, and like the women on this thread you will survive. It's tough and can feel very lonely. But there's a great community of women here to talk to. Anyone got US-related advice on legal/financial help? (Sorry, in UK)

Thank you everyone. I was having a very rough day when I typed that. It’s better today as I did have a call in with the paralegal and did get some financial things sent to her. Hopefully everything can start moving soon. We are going to try mediation but will probably not go anywhere as he wants too much! He wants the kids 50% of the time and put in the separation agreement that I can’t discuss him with my kids. His idea is to have the kids see a LGBT affirming therapist to answer my kids questions.

I also came across a podcast between the pastor (we attended together until I left after he put our marriage second to ex’s feelings) and ex’s sex therapist. It was about transgender people in the church. I couldn’t listen (too much anxiety), but my sister did. A letter was read from the ex about how he uses she/her pronouns and defines themself as a lesbian! These men are so sick in the head.

I’m still stressed about my kids visiting their Dad. I think I have more anxiety, disgust and stress than my kids do! I want my kids to see him for who he truly is! How do you all deal with co-parenting with a person like this?

put in the separation agreement that I can’t discuss him with my kids. His idea is to have the kids see a LGBT affirming therapist to answer my kids questions.

I presume you're not in the UK? How on earth can he think he can control what you say to your own children? This is brainwashing the kids and controlling you. It is far better for them to get a balanced view rather than just one side.

What are the supposed consequences if you say things to them that he doesn't like? You should urgently get legal advice on this. It's completely unreasonable and I don't see how it can be enforceable.

With regards to co-parenting, you do have to disassociate yourself from what you can't control to some extent (exactly the reverse of what he is doing!) Ex and I make a reasonable job of co-parenting but that's mainly because he accepts that I take the lead. It works better for everyone that way.

Hi Kitkat. I don't think it would be deemed in the children's best interests that you 'can't discuss him' with the kids; he might manage to get something standard in about not badmouthing him. But imagine them wanting to talk to you/ask you things, and you being unable to say anything.
You could ask for a neutral therapist who does not take a stance, proper non-judgemental, non-directive and ideal not private or from a trans support organisation but mainstream public mental health type therapy.
Re. co-parenting, you just need to stay calm, rock-like, and support the children. As they get older they will rapidly decide whether they want all that time with him, and how they feel. Doesn't sound like he is capable of responsible, child-centred parenting, and is as self-absorbed as many of our children's fathers are; it's really hard to see your kids putting up with that but if they are unhappy or don't want to go, you will have grounds to seek advice on that. It all depends on their ages.
Meanwhile you can be the consistent, reliable, loving and child-centred parent. Like many women dealing with idiot co-parents, you just stay very focussed, pragmatic and look after yourself as well as the children.
They are not stupid. They get older, they see how fathers behave, they see the selfishness, they experience the fear, repulsion, disappointment and shame that they aren't allowed to talk about. You can help them talk to you; it doesn't mean you have to say 'banned' things TO them about him.
You are making progress - legal/financial/child custody.
Hang on in there. You'll get through this.

Kitkat he sounds deranged; how on earth does he think you never mentioning him to the kids would work?

Obviously badmouthing him isn't ideal (same as with any breakup) but they need to be able to talk to their mum about what it's like at their dad's, don't they? You're supposed to be their safe person that they can talk to about absolutely anything that worries them!

On co-parenting, it's a lot easier if they're capable of acknowledging that the children's needs come first. Hopefully he'll get his head round that eventually. In the meantime, batten down the hatches and prepare for an extended game of silly buggers?

Absolutely Tyro. My kids visited for several months and afterwards disclosed great distress, fear and horror at the lack of care for them at his place, having to deal with the clothes/make up etc strewn around, and the way he dressed. They need to be free to tell you how they feel about Dad... It doesn't mean you will give negative messages. There's a real complacency about how a transitioning parent is no big deal for kids in the current climate, but it can cause children and young people enormous pain and distress. And the current climate shuts them down from being able to express anything negative to peers... So you are vital as a primary support. Don't let him bully you out of that role. They will need you particularly if he is self-centred and neglects their needs.

I unexpectedly encountered my ex this weekend at a public event. I thought I was doing better but I was overwhelmed with anger, resentment, not sure what else. I keep hoping I'm finally over all of this, but apparently not.

Oh Quinn I feel for you. It's dreadful. I thought I was okay then encountered mine in full miniskirted handbag-swinging Just-Like-Real-Ladies-ness. It's so upsetting to see and brings it all back. The anger is real and reasonable but doesn't mean you aren't okay. Or that you haven't moved on. You will bounce back quicker each time and remember, you got away from that person and you are the real person with integrity. I posted on here when I got home after my last encounter and was reminded, I think by Tinsel of how much time and self-absorption it will have taken your ex to present in that way, and that we are the true adult females prevailing despite the crap behaviour of self-centred, delusional men. It's a blip. You'll carry on moving on.

full miniskirted handbag-swinging Just-Like-Real-Ladies-ness

Why am I picturing TinkyWinky in a tutu here?

I'm not exaggerating. No woman I know in real life walks like that. I'm guessing he has been on a course or YouTube video in how to sashay like a woman. It was truly an extraordinary sight outside the local Tesco

Social, thank you, I really appreciate your perspective on this. It's just been so damn hard. I am done with that shallow person and his narrow, self-centered life, but it still hurts.

And I may be flippant but I certainly didn't see the funny side on the day. It really hurts and years on I still carry loss, grief, anger, all that. But you can be okay even if what happened isn't okay. And crucially, I recently had an epiphany in counselling... I realized that man wasted years of my life, and much of my energy. I've had enough of him wasting my time, and if I'm not careful the legacy of what he did will waste more years of my precious life. Enough!

I'm still not sure "over it" is something that can be reasonably expected - it's had such a massive impact on so much of your life, Quinn, I wouldn't be surprised if seeing him throws you a bit off-kilter for years to come.

Could be a good opportunity for some therapeutic reframing though. I'm suddenly reminded of Neville's Boggart in the third Harrry Potter book. Are you familiar with it? A bit of visualisation down those lines might leave you feeling better able to brush it off next time.

Did anyone see the spoof "International AGP Day" thing on twitter? Ex spotted it and commented that, actually, increased awareness would have been quite useful for him because then he wouldn't have had to spend thirty years wondering whether he was gay or transsexual, and it's actually a useful label for him, and that he's less inclined to push his current private-only dressing any further now that he knows it's definitely not an "I'm supposed to be a woman really" thing.