Trans Widows Escape Committee 3: Rise of the Trans Widows

[TinselAngel]

Less than two years have passed since the first TWEC thread and now its time for a third.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

1. You are not alone
2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

Regulars- do post here to get the thread going.

Lurkers- now would be a great time to de-lurk.

Why do people show empathy and compassion for people who are manipulated like that but not for us?

Because very few people truly understand the difference between empathy and sympathy! And everyone's conditioned to absorb the feelings and let whoever's dominating dictate the words.

And I don't feel entirely comfortable following that line of conversation on this thread, because this thread is a support thread, which means all the empathy available has to be targeted on the women here, because without it you break and they win.

And we are not letting them win.

Delurking, just to show support. I'm married to a lovely man, if he did what your partners have done I'd feel utterly betrayed and that he had become someone completely different to the man I married. Which, of course, he would have been.
I dont know how you've all survived these horrific experiences. You are all incredibly strong. Maximum respect.
(Goes back to lurking, again)

So, development for me. He is finally seeing a therapist, who said that we needed to talk and he needs to find out how I feel. So I took time off, so we were child free. Twenty minutes later Fter talk g about what he wants, OK, led by me to a h
certain extent because I want to know what he is thinking, I tell him, because he hasn't asked, my feelings. I'm not a lesbien, and I don't want to share a house with another woman. I even tried to put it across that it wibe better for him, so he could be who he wanted to be. He asked if I wanted a divorce, I said at this point seperation, but we need to talk to the children, see how they want things to work with us sepe. He actually questioned if they would no want it to happen,. I can't see youngest desperate to stay in the house with his grumpy irrational attitude. I reckon he doesn't think I am serious, but I am. I want out. I feel so much better that I have said this to him, its just I need to push it forward. I cam do this. I have the support of my family and a few friends. We are strong, really women, and they will never be as strong as we are.

987 it's completely political. Sympathy for transitioned has exploded since Bruce Jenner it seems to me. They have absolute victim status and we know the penalty for doing anything other than praising/admiring/pitying them. It won't last, as with all these trends. Gradually the tide is turning. Also people will get bored and move on. The latter could be the worst shift of all, for many of our ex husband's given how much they depend on attention/sympathy/very special status and the normal rules not applying. Being of little interest will eat some alive.
Thank you so muchCatmaiden for your kind words. I really welcome solidarity from women more widely.
Lastly on getting over this it probably isn't a helpful goal. instead we press on, surviving 'firsts' and pain/trauma, getting our heads round the reality of what happened to us and our children, and finding a way of starting again. I don't want to be forever defined by marrying an inadequate man and being the local woman with the weird ex and blown-apart family. I hope we can find hope as part of this support thread. Many of us seem to be in the thick of it and feeling destroyed (glad you are thinking about and saying what you need/want Miricles). If anyone out there is further down the road of starting again I for one would like to hear their stories.
I for one will not be destroyed by this.

Miricles you know the bit that jumped out at me there? His therapist told him to ask how you feel, so he sat around and waited for you to do it instead of actually asking you. He's still expecting you to mother him and make everything alright, isn't he?

Not to sound like a hand-wringing stereotype, but what they really need is it hammering home into their heads that the children come first. And what's best for the children is when their father learns a bit of empathy instead of narcissism, and starts putting their needs above his own.

Spot on Tyro. Adults are meant to put their wishes and needs SECOND to the children. How children feel, and are neglected and mistreated during in-family processes of late transition are invisible issues. Apart from the one brave Children of Transitioners blog, children are under much more pressure than us to feel happy and admiring. It is far more isolating for my teens than me; I have this thread and a lot of gender-critical adults out there; they have virtually nowhere to talk about how they actually feel (repulsed, creeped-out, scared, threatened, lied-to, betrayed, disregarded, owning a childhood history that may be a fiction, alone). That's the bit that really really makes me angry about all of this. That middle-aged men's self-actualization/finding themself/being their authentic self/fetish takes priority over the needs of growing young people and children. What a scandal.

Hm. With hindsight, I think that's probably a large part of why my pet agp has been in a holding pattern for several years.

When I was pregnant, he was terrified of having a son, because he didn't know how to be a father to a son, because his own father cocked up so very badly in so many ways (and still does). So he tried to emulate his mother instead - but his mother's usual behaviour protocols were conditioned by his father being the absolute arse that everyone had to revolve around.

When our DD was a few months old, he admitted to me that the love-feeling he was expected to feel wasn't really there yet and it scared him. I told him it was the same for me, and I was very blunt about the fact that, if she ever picked up on her father not loving her it would mess her right up, just as it had him, so he was bloody well going to fake it until he makes it. So he did. And now he loves her fiercely, and (with a bit of encouragement) will push out of his comfort zone and do new things with her, because he understands it's good for her development and their bond.

So he hasn't had to send his midlife crisis out into a weird sexual direction in order to feel like he's still in control of his life - which means my midlife crisis isn't going to be spiralling down in a desperate attempt to protect our daughter from him.

Hmmm.

social, talk to the kids. Talk to them about how it makes you feel, in your body and your mind, when their dad behaves in certain ways. Don't make it a matter of blame, don't make definitive statements about what's happening in his head; just give them space to feel their feelings and get them out in words that make sense to them - and you have to lead the way by showing them it's okay for them to do that, by doing it first. Otherwise, when they hit a point where the feelings get too much and they can't express them healthily, they break down in their own ways.

Obviously that's easier said than done when there's this much stress going on! But it's best for the kids, isn't it? They have to learn that it's okay to feel and it's okay to express it, and they have to know it's safe to do that.

Trans widows' children need to be able to talk to each other as much as we do, I should think.

I lurk and radiate all the support I can here and don't intrude, but this jumped out at me: children are under much more pressure than us to feel happy and admiring and thought this is so true.

I'm one of the children of a man who came out as gay well into a marriage, and without going into the complications of that, yes, I understand exactly what that quote means. An ex partner can (eventually and very painfully and with a whole lot of complications) separate themselves and walk right away. As a child, its a parent and not a partner you're considering walking away from, and whatever you do you carry those genes and the presence of that person for the rest of your life. My siblings and I have always been so aware that the sheer fact of our existence slams his existence in our mother's face, as much as our existence slams in the face of our father's partners that he has a history they wish he didn't.

Thanks for posting Michelle

My siblings and I have always been so aware that the sheer fact of our existence slams his existence in our mother's face, as much as our existence slams in the face of our father's partners that he has a history they wish he didn't.

How awful, yet how understandable that you feel that way.

From your own experience, is there anything we can do to help our children with this?

Tinsel I have no idea. It's time and survival, I think that's about all. I do understand what it's like to love someone and appreciate the lovely parts of them and still be very angry with what they've done and the devastation they've left behind them - and how much that has hurt the parent that was always there for you and did the day after day hard work of parenting while the other one got to go and 'find themselves'. Split loyalties in spades. You're needed to celebrate the 'new' person your parent has become and be happy for them and their freedom and the tragedy of their having been living a life that didn't make them happy - yet you're standing in the wreckage of their creation, loving the key victim of it, and not supposed to mention it.

Seriously, at the time of the divorce my siblings and I used to rather bitterly joke amongst ourselves that it was a shame you couldn't have inconvenient kids put to sleep after a marriage ended and both parents were desperate to escape the evidence of who they were previously.

We were incredibly lucky that my mother, despite all she was put through, tried very hard not to be negative about our father in front of us and add to the feelings of guilt and split loyalties, and she deserves a bloody medal for that. She was truthful, yes. She never dressed it up or tried to hide what he was doing, and her truthfulness and honesty about it helped a lot, I very much remember a conversation with her when I was about 14 that was essentially that you could either love the good aspects of someone and cope with the rest, or say goodbye. I've done that throughout my adulthood. Another sibling walked completely away. I don't think either of us would agree we're completely happy with our decision.

I can't imagine how very hard this must be to deal with as a mother.

Hi brave and wonderful women.

I hope this is ok to post and I'm sorry if it's already well known about. I saw this on twitter just now:

http://www.gender.org.uk/conf/1998/diana.htm

Tweet: https://twitter.com/bluskyeallison/status/1174636488623108098?s=21

*The Psychological Effect on Wives
and Partners of Transsexuals

Diana Aitchison
Co-ordinator, Women of the Beaumont Society
Gendys Conference, 1998*

Clearly so very much research began and at some point began to be hidden, swept under the carpet.

It's actually a sickening read; clearly describes coercive control before it was recognised sorry perhaps I shouldn't have posted.

... though I notice you've rt it on twitter! Apologies. I'm sharing in my groups.

@socialworker222 I think you are right about the impact of Caitlin Jenner. I know so many trans widows whose exes came out after that. And really Caitlin went from a homely boring looking man to a glamorous, younger looking, fashionable woman posing on the cover of a magazine.

There isn't much an aging man can do to increase his physical attractiveness other than a toupee and weight lifting maybe. Maybe some hair dye. But turn into a woman and you have wigs and make up and surgeries and hair removal.
Some one said it used to be that men having mid life crises would have an affair with their younger secretary. Now they want to be the younger secretary.

I remember the look on my ex's face anytime Caitlin was on screen. Or Laverne Cox for that matter. It was like he was in heaven. I thought he was just happy for LGBT acceptance as a cross dresser.

Many many people are reaching peak trans. And I think that eventually this will be seen as a ridiculous trend that is harmful to everyone in their families, including themselves. My ex already had issues with blood pressure and cholesterol. They have done research showing that men who take estrogen are the greatest at risk group for heart attack, stroke and blood clots.
And that research was done on people in their 20s and 30s. Imagine what will happen when men in their 40's start having heart attacks and strokes after being on estrogen for years and years. The kids have already been through enough.
I hope that isn't what happens.

Michelle I don't suppose you know of anywhere we could find the stories of people who've been in your position but at a much, much younger age? I've a very young family member who's been badly affected by a parent transitioning and it's hard to know how best to help at the moment. It would help me, I think, if I could learn from the reflections of adults who were in a similar situation - and you're right, there are definitely parallels.

I have the distinct impression we'd find the Beaumont Society ethos in Dworkin's Right Wing Women.

Some one said it used to be that men having mid life crises would have an affair with their younger secretary. Now they want to be the younger secretary.

Funny you should say that.

Mine's fucked up feelings about women and sexuality all started when he was seven - when his dad manoeuvred him into being the one to unwittingly drop the bombshell that he was having an affair with the secretary.

You have to be kidding. I can't even think of anything to say!
My ex used to say he could barely remember his childhood but then he had stories and when people in his family would say "remember when this happened" he would remember and talk about it.
I think his struct Catholic upbringing and marrying in the church really affected him. I get the impression that he was effeminate from a young age and was constantly being managed and molded so he would act more masculine.
I do wonder if he is actually gay and has so much internalized homophobia that being gay is unacceptable so he is trans instead. I guess I'll never know.

Blimey 987 were you married to my ex?! Mine had identical issues, Catholicism, continuous pressure not to be gay. But when he transitioned I assumed this was absolutely the worst thing for his parents (okay, I'll confess to momentary schadenfreude re. the difficult ex in-laws' shock and horror, sorry, I'm a cow ). I'd wondered if he was in fact gay and suspect he may be; I watch with interest to see what kind of partner he ends up with (presumably a trans woman, or a man..?? Those seem common outcomes). I assumed it would be far easier to come out as gay, even to very homophobic parents, than to Go Nuclear with this route. There really are themes here (like the IT career thing).

My friend's ex promptly transitioned after separating, told her his whole life including marriage and kids had been an attempt to stop the feelings. They were both heavily involved in a Christian church, both having had strongly religious families.

She was extremely angry at him rewriting their whole relationship as a sham from his point of view.

And no doubt angry at bring being used in that way. It's no different from someone cynically marrying for money or a green card... Hence the anger and betrayal. It occurred to me recently that 'getting over this' is partly about not letting my ex waste any more of my precious life. Have to be careful not to let them waste the subsequent years because we feel so betrayed and angry.

On the religion front - I'm seeing the same pattern, but in my case it's intractable and closed-minded militant atheism that acts as the "religion".

And there was sexuality pressure from parents too. Couldn't be the alpha heterosexual male like his dad. Ended up emulating his mum in behaviour. Attached sexual feelings to sexualised underwear right from the word go. External behaviour straight, internal behaviour autosexual targeted on the proxy for the parent who he always knew deep down had hurt him the most through sexual behaviour.

As for the IT career - mine couldn't do a career, because that would mean having a successful career and thus being like the dad who hurt him. But he still ran off into the heights of intellect instead of learning what empathy is.

The underlying story's always the same, isn't it?

(He's so pissed off that I figured out more than he did and can now smugly explain where he's going wrong when Einstein is nagging him in the witching hour! )

It occurred to me recently that 'getting over this' is partly about not letting my ex waste any more of my precious life. Have to be careful not to let them waste the subsequent years because we feel so betrayed and angry.

This is something I think about a lot. It's long enough ago and enough water has gone under the bridge that I'm not really angry any more about what happened to me.

What I am absolutely bloody furious about though is that there's still women going through this in isolation or feeling pressured to accept it, so I channel that anger into trying to help them.

Then I think, should I be moving on now and letting it be somebody else's battle? But I can't because I'm so bloody angry on their behalf

@socialworker222 Blancjatd's AGP typology included that they either work in STEM or hyper masculine fields like first responders or military. My ex is a chemist.
We have noticed a lot of other commonalities in trans widow groups like losing their virginity later than the average man, tendency to hoard, mumbling, a mother with serious mental illness like bipolar disorder.
I was surprised that my ex in laws were so ok with it but once he came out I didn't see them again.

The thing is they have internalized homophobia that they don't even admit to. They grew up with people molding them into acting straight and hearing bad gay jokes and hearing how sinful gay people are. Most likely they heard nothing about trans people because it wasn't common back then. So it feels safer to be trans. That's what I think happened with my ex.
The only person I know he has dated since we divorced looked like could be intersex or a detransitioner.

@TinselAngel I feel the same way. I want to help other women who are going through it. But I have the same conflict about it. Should I just move on?