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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans Widows Escape Committee 3: Rise of the Trans Widows

942 replies

TinselAngel · 18/08/2019 18:28

Less than two years have passed since the first TWEC thread and now its time for a third.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

  1. You are not alone
  2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
  3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

Regulars- do post here to get the thread going.

Lurkers- now would be a great time to de-lurk.

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Thread gallery
6
ItsOnAmericasTorturedBrow · 11/09/2019 18:30

Yes this is absolutely 100% true of my ex - substance misuse, mental health problems, chasing the dragon. One of the women he had an affair with told me he confessed to her he was trying my clothes and underwear on when I was out of the house for the whole of our whole relationship. He started a relationship with me under false pretences and chased the dragon from that point onwards.

TinselAngel · 11/09/2019 21:07

Addiction and dissociation in AGP courtesy of twitter http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3689254-Addiction-and-dissociation-in-AGP-courtesy-of-twitter

Tyro's thread.

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Tyrotoxicity · 11/09/2019 21:49

It seemed like a twitter-thing with plenty of scope for useful insight, so I made a thread to signal-boost, and shared the link on my facebook too.

Ex read it and agrees it's on the money as well. We did spend a bit of time discussing it and relating it to him (and also to me) - self-awareness will help him be mindful of escalating addiction behaviours and that's a net positive for me and for DD so time well spent I think.

shannonthrace · 12/09/2019 03:36

@LuminousLily, yes I'm in the US. PM me if you're comfortable sharing what state you're in--I know of at least three real-life gatherings that might be helpful.

TinselAngel · 12/09/2019 22:21

I'm rewatching some Downton and have decided I'd like to be called the Trans Dowager from now on. Wine

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socialworker222 · 12/09/2019 23:18

Tonight, Matthew, I'm identifying as a biological woman who was married to a man who now wears M&S Angel bras and short skirts, and carries his handbag on his flexed forearm. I never had a 'wife' and reserve the right to identify as I wish without prejudice or abuse.
That's okay with everyone isn't it?

TinselAngel · 12/09/2019 23:23

Matthew Crawley or Matthew Kelly? Grin

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TinselAngel · 12/09/2019 23:33

(Either is ok 👀)

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Tyrotoxicity · 13/09/2019 01:33

Google gave me two definitions for dowager. Formal: a widow with a title or property derived from her late husband. Informal: a dignified elderly woman. I propose we modify the informal slightly. Forcibly eject the potential for ageist connotations; rephrase and reframe. You're a dignified elder of our little subset of the woman-tribe.

I like it. Gets my vote. You are the Trans Dowager to me henceforth, Tinsel. I am validating and respecting this identity on an ongoing basis. Grin

Although I've just now realised this means that if anyone comes along and says "Actually, I've always really hated the word dowager, it's a big fat ugly word, so no" there is an outside possibility you may be invalidated out of existence and that would be bad. Hmm

ItsOnAmericasTorturedBrow · 13/09/2019 07:20

I tell you what really fucks them off - being referred to as ex husband or the father of the children by the courts and other official bodies. What they want is "wife" and "mother" but they just can't so there. I'm not a dowager but I do have the hump 😂

socialworker222 · 13/09/2019 07:47

Yes I noted a lot of Twitter spluttering that I should refer to my ex as my 'ex-wife'. Astounding idiocy. I married a man and have the photos and certificate to prove it. Maybe my ex should take some responsibility for his previous choices rather than me having to enter la-la land...

TinselAngel · 13/09/2019 07:56

Why is their identity more important than ours, I wonder?

(Obviously I know the answer to this).

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Tyrotoxicity · 13/09/2019 08:49

Why is their identity more important than ours, I wonder?

I know you have a good working answer to this question, but I can maybe expand on it a bit by tackling it from a different angle.

It's because words have power.

If you can make someone use your system of words instead of their system of words, that's an attempt at dominance. It's an attempt to strip out the mindset you've already got, and replace it with theirs.

And so much of our minds is basically, when you strip it right back, all constructed out of words;

We all have internal experiences. We all have to find a word for those experiences. We all choose the best fit out of the words available to us. The words we're using in our own heads to describe our experiences are a fundamental part of what makes us unique individuals instead of the Borg.

And we often latch on to a word, as a descriptor for some facet of a personal experience, that's ultimately wrong enough to cause cognitive dissonance and trip us up.

I've had a lot of problems on that front thanks to early decoding skills and using books as an escape. Most of my word-understandings operate on a pure-word level, with the relations between words determined purely with reference to where I read them. I haven't actually linked them properly, internally, to something I have direct experience of.

As part of getting my head round my traumas and not being repeatedly sent into a downwards spiral of despair, I've had to go quite deep into proper feminist analysis. I've picked up a lot of words, I've interpreted a lot of my experience through it, it lets me co-exist with my traumas instead of being flattened by them.

These words mean my trauma is no longer dominating me.

If I succumb to outside pressure, reject the lens of this particular system of words, and replace it with a directly opposing system of words, I can't interpret my trauma in a healthy way.

So anyone who's trying to colonise my mind-built-of-words by forcing me to adopt a different set of words - they're trying to dominate my mind by reformatting it in their image.

If I submit to this colonisation, I have to interpret my experiences through their lens. That leads me to understand myself as a person whose internal experience is characterised as "transman".

Forcing me to interpret myself as something that needs to mutilate itself and force everyone in the vicinity into a subservient position re: opposing mindsets. Fucking me over while turning me into an abuser.

Which, by a roundabout route, means I can drop in this quote I spotted on an old thread a few minutes ago, that jumped out of me. It's a high-up from Stonewall being quoted, probably Ruth Hunt, and the thing that jumped out at me is: I actually believe her statements are true.

She said what trans people face is misperception.
She said that this is like the fight for gay rights in the 80s.

What is a misperception? A mismatch between one person's word-mindset and another's, that means they are unable to communicate properly, because they are using words to mean different things.

And it is like the fight for gay rights, very much like it - except in the 80s the two warring systems of word-assignation were pro-gay-feminist and anti-gay-sexist. The pro-gay lens was by definition an anti-sexist lens. The people against it were therefore trying to maintain patriarchy, sexism et al. The anti-gay side was the sexist, pro-patriarchal-status-quo side.

Whereas the opposite is true with trans-words. One position reinforces the patriarchal status quo, and the other challenges it. And the reason we've got this massive argument over which side is which is all rooted in the human tendency to struggle to think outside the parameters of our word-systems and the fact that most people haven't actually sat down and worked out precisely what it is that everyone else is pointing at when they use the label "patriarchy", or the label "sexist" for that matter.

So: their identity is more important than ours, because their identity is constructed out of the dominant, sexist, patriarchal wordsets the mainstream is constructed of, and their assertion of identity reinforces the propagation of those wordsets into people's minds.

Tl;dr: their identity is more important because their identity is consistent with and reinforcing the dominant patriarchal mindset. And it's really hard to step back from the neverending human obsession with dickering over the precise way a word should be used and properly focus all efforts on the problem (in this case, the dominant mindset in patriarchy). Because we're all, on a fundamental level, trying to push our word-sets out there so we can communicate our internal experiences.

The answer there is to analyse and deconstruct the wordsets to find the common ground in people's heads, and find mutually agreeable words that work for everyone. But that's not possible if one side is an oppressor with the oppressing tendency to dominate instead of collaborate.

I could ramble on for a lot longer on this topic, but I'm wary of a massive derail on a support thread. And also I have to go to therapy in half an hour and I need to put some trousers on. And I've just realised one of the things that stops me talking openly about my trauma is the worry that the people I'm talking to are going to try to get me to interpret it through the lens constructed out of the language of the oppressor and I'm scared of leaving myself vulnerable to an attempt at mind-colonisation by the patriarchy.

joggerbottom · 14/09/2019 07:01

Hello all Thanks

Bel Mooney's advice column this week focusses on a divorced TW who is seeking contact from his former family. The TW says that his family should be 'mature and move on'.

I have lurked here and the relationships board for a long time and reading your experiences has taught me never to take relationships at face value.

The advice given is one sided and offers advice from another TW. Without lurking here I would have accepted that the advice given is valuable, but on reading today I automatically asked, where is the perspective of a trans widow?

I hope that it is appropriate to link here. If not, please report.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-7461553/BEL-MOONEY-family-disowned-said-woman.html

WifeOfTiresias · 14/09/2019 09:05

I would love the opportunity to respond to that pile of self-justifying crap - is there some way of contacting the Mail to do that? Though the fact that It hasn't even occurred to Bel Mooney to do this rather than going straight to another brave and stunning one probably means I am wasting my time. But I would like to try.

So yet again the wife is cast as the devil with no right to reply and the trans people are just lovely and reasonable. Women are silenced yet again.

socialworker222 · 14/09/2019 09:08

Hi Jogger; well there's a narrow, unempathic and judgemental response from Bel Mooney. The use of children 'freeing' themselves later in life is offensive to both those children and (as usual) the ex-wife behind it all, turning the children against dad. There's no consideration of how the children themselves might feel (betrayed, lied-to, unconvinced that dad is a woman, broken trust), and as adults their decision is assumed to still be part of an evil plot by the ex to alienate them. It's just more 'stunning and brave', and puts the blame on the ex-wife, and assumes the children are led/stupid/bigoted. So narrow, so lacking in any curiosity about the impact of this. Does anyone know if it's possible to/worth writing in to the dreaded Mail?

socialworker222 · 14/09/2019 09:11

There's this: Bel answers readers' questions on emotional and relationship problems each week.
I suggest some emails?

Write to Bel Mooney, Daily Mail, 2 Derry Street, London W8 5TT, or email [email protected].

A pseudonym will be used if you wish.

Bel reads all letters but regrets she cannot enter into personal correspondence.

socialworker222 · 14/09/2019 09:28

The email address works, just take off my final full-stop.
I note she only went to a brave and stunning person, and showed the usual lack of curiosity about how this might have felt for the family left behind. Angry

gwilt · 14/09/2019 09:37

Delurking to express my respect and support.

The older I get, the more I try to spread the feminist word.

I just asked my husband if he'd call himself a feminist. The answer was YES Grin

TinselAngel · 14/09/2019 11:09

I wonder if the friend she consulted happens to be a newspaper columnist with his own thread on here?

It really is telling that it's not even considered that there might be another side to the story of why his kids aren't talking to him. Any other man would surely be asked how his own behaviour might have contributed to this?

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WifeOfTiresias · 14/09/2019 14:08

I will spend some time this weekend crafting a response to Bel Mooney's piece. Just don't quite know where to start there is so much wrong in there! Angry

ItsOnAmericasTorturedBrow · 14/09/2019 15:43

Very sad to see that the lesbians marching to protest Lesbian erasure in Leeds on their were shut down by "trans lesbians" ie men.

divamag.co.uk/2019/09/09/streets-of-leeds-lined-with-support-for-trans-lesbians/?fbclid=IwAR0KK5-1s-A0Vs6HbAu42miTFPv7kbnd8D7HmME-aBJX8zhHfaWqSMCCrAc

Tyrotoxicity · 15/09/2019 12:04

I haven't even got as far as the answer on that Daily Mail link, and I'm already shouting at my computer.

"I am left thinking I will end my days with no resolution of the situation." - Yeah mate, that's cos the "resolution" you're after is everyone bowing down to you. It's all about you. You could resolve this yourself by coming to terms with the fact that you've actually been a massive bellend to your nearest and dearest and that's on you to take responsibility for, not the people you've hurt.

ItsOn the media reporting of of the lesbian march is pure propaganda. I was there. The actual counterprotest were unwittingly exploiting the optics, but they sure as hell didn't shut down the lesbians there on the day. There was a distinctly defiant air of absolute refusal to be cowed by the presence of woke homophobes.

TinselAngel · 15/09/2019 12:15

There's a good chance of course that the Mail letter is just propaganda and isn't even true.

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Tyrotoxicity · 15/09/2019 12:16

"I committed no offence other than responding to a medical condition" he says. FFS!

It just says it all, doesn't it? Typical male abusive mindset. "My horrible behaviour isn't abuse if I feel like it's justified by the thoughts in my head." Total lack of self-awareness and inability to realise one is both a subject and an object.

I'm just going to take a moment to do some calming breathing exercises before I keep reading.

"Your ex-wife was surely angry and humiliated"

Humiliated. Now there's a verb with a very definite subject and object. We've identified the wife as the object of the verb. I wonder who the subject could have been? Who was performing the actions of humiliation?

"I can understand how very hard it must be to accept that Dad has now become another ‘Mum’"

Oh fuck OFF with this bollocks and look at what their mum did. She backed them up, she kept them safe, she protected them from a father whose behaviour was fucking the whole family right up. What did their dad do? He was the one doing the fucking up. He's not another mum. "Mum" to those children is the one who protected them, the one who's on their side, the one who put their needs first. He's literally trying to identify his way out of accepting what he's done. What an absolute knob.

"But it seems unjust, as well as sad, that nobody spoke to them to put the case for forgiveness and reconciliation, to ask them to choose to be kind."

Jesus, this is the absolute antithesis of the Relationships board collective wisdom, isn't it? Trying to use guilt and shame to coerce the abused into letting the abuser off the hook is abusive.

"Chris, of course you have committed no ‘offence’"

Yeah, cos what constitutes an offence is determined by what men think is acceptable, and they think psychologically abusing women and children to get their own way is perfectly fine and dandy and normal and not wrong.

"Have you ever written to them? It might be worth a try now."

The only potential positive I can see in writing them is it might remind them that their dad is still a dick who won't accept their boundary. Just in case they'd been wavering on that one.

That made me very, very cross.

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