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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Transsexual women face erasure

999 replies

joannegosling2 · 16/08/2019 22:45

It's a fine state of affairs isn't it?

Please - before the administrators axe this post, at least hear me out.

August 2019 - Transsexual women (not the self ID-seeking transgender - I refer to those of us who surgically transition lock, stock and barrel under strict medical supervision but whose narratives have been appropriated by the TG activists and advertised as their own) now being clobbered by feminists, not only here but every where else on the internet too, whether it be on TGN or this new Spinster group I've heard about. I understand the voice of feminism on the latter has reached unseen heights of extremism.

In fact, if I may say, equally as extreme as the trans activists whom feminists have been resisting for quite some time now. But what a difference a week makes. It seems they are now mounting a full-on attack on their own allies - we transsexuals (who are no less
appalled by the behaviour of the transgenderists and feel equally threatened by them), suggesting we are exactly like those same people with no respect at all for women. AND IT IS CATCHING ON.

They insult us further by calling us men and insisting we submit to male pronouns and acknowledge the absurd assumption that we benefit from male privilege (whatever that is, I surely never realized there was any).

For the zillionth time WE are NOT the problem. This entire farce was started by the self ID demands of the TG crowd. It is true - and we recognise - that women are fighting for their rights as never before. But regrettably there are certain feminist agitators who now see this as a golden opportunity to rid the streets and social life of not only
cross-dressing men who seek to enter their spaces but transsexuals too. To this end they have petitioned MPs to scrap the Gender Recognition Act which affords some legal protection to us...which by happy coincidence (though for different reasons) is exactly what their enemies demand also.

So here the two opposing sides have found common ground, and the politicians, having had the wool pulled over their eyes by the TRAs using narratives stolen from us, are joyfully legislating to bring peace and harmony to our troubled society. Cross-dressers will have their self ID on condition they respect segregated spaces and women will be safe from men in their toilets. And we will all live happily ever after.

Not so for us transsexuals. Someone somewhere has decided that we must be the sacrificial lamb to enable this to happen. We must cease to exist as a group. And not existing together with self ID being in place means it will be deemed no longer appropriate to transition via surgical means. Consequently all such treatment, once tailored purely for he needs of transsexuals, will vanish forever.

I hear women repeat over and over that they were never consulted about 'old-school' transsexuals using their spaces like we have done for years. Since in all probability many of you here weren't even born when I had my operation some 30 years ago that would have been rather difficult. And besides I don't recall being consulted about these outrageous proposals to erase me and my compatriots from society. There are certain well-known individuals on social media claiming to be transsexual but who eagerly cow to feminist insistence that they be labelled men. If they are happy to be blokes, fine. But they
certainly do NOT speak for most of us. I will NOT degrade myself in that way just to please others - nor to seek validation.

Personally it matters little whether women accept me or not. They never did when I was trying my best to present myself in the male role either. That used to hurt me a lot. But now I've grown harder. If the feminists treat their allies worse than they do their enemies, then they do not deserve allies. Whilst still supporting women's concerns in general, transsexuals are also entitled to fight for their existence - especially in the face of so many seeking their total erasure.

I believe feminists have singled us out for one simple reason. Thanks to our years of serious and medicated transitioning (unlike the TG community) many of us pass so well women cannot tell should they brush by us in their toilets. (If you have they're most probably cross-dressers). This I feel is what irks them most as it makes it near impossible to keep us out. So the fewer transsexuals enabled to transition, the less will be in their spaces.

I refuse to pay atonement for the sins of transgender activists. I'm sorry but I just cannot accept that from now on we be barred from women's toilets and hospital wards. For I can tell you it will not stop there. Next it will be parks, libraries, shopping centres and schools -
indeed any place where there are children. Apartheid sound familiar?

So know this Mumsnetters. I shall go on using women's toilets as I've done for half my life now. Not because I'm some misogynistic, foul-mouthed lager-drinking bloke who seeks to undermine or abuse women as many feminists seem to relish believing these days, but to
quietly assert my right to exist; you see I do it in the context of the time when black people once sat at segregated lunch counters enduring terrible abuse and violence from bigots.

Feminists can so do their worst. We few transsexuals who are left have nothing to lose now.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Michelleoftheresistance · 22/08/2019 14:17

You also obviously completely missed Hamster 's multiple and excellent contributions.

Datun · 22/08/2019 14:19

If you're so ate up by what I originally posted, how about the journalists or TV media members of your anti-transsexual mob publish this for all the public to see.

Lol. All 'the public' can see it 🙄

Bubbletrouble43 · 22/08/2019 14:20

I'd like to humbly point out that although I haven't read the full thread, far from an onslaught of bullying by feminists what I'm reading is women sharing their experiences of being bullied . Maybe I'm reading a different thread.

DuMondeB · 22/08/2019 14:20

Why are you posting from a completely different account OP?

Joanna instead of Joanne?

Weird behaviour.

Hamster00 · 22/08/2019 14:20

But seriously, I'm rather proud I've caused the biggest reaction over a trans issue here. No, really, it's got you all talking about it.

Careful - your ego and misogyny is showing. You essentially took a big dump in the middle of the forum then ran off - not answering any questions that were posed to you.

Then you come back, gloat, and scream "look at me!", "look at me!" like a petulant child.

It's ok though, the grown-ups had an interesting discussion while you were away.

Sorry you didn't feel you were centred enough...

Datun · 22/08/2019 14:21

And why the name change, op? Are you a PBP?

Cascade220 · 22/08/2019 14:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ReSistering · 22/08/2019 14:33

Its basically none of what you just said.

This is certainly no way the biggest anything. You sound so up yourself!

No empathy for whats happened to tgose actually suffering real, not imagined, harm.

Oh well, no reasoning with the unreasonable.

ErrolTheDragon · 22/08/2019 14:37

Then you all cackled

That's what witches do, dontcha know.

TinselAngel · 22/08/2019 14:37

I don't know if there's enough space left on this thread to unpick the OP's most recent post.

Aberhonddu · 22/08/2019 14:43

it.

Careful - your ego and misogyny is showing. You essentially took a big dump in the middle of the forum then ran off - not answering any questions that were posed to you.

Then you come back, gloat, and scream "look at me!", "look at me!" like a petulant child.

It's ok though, the grown-ups had an interesting discussion while you were away.

Sorry you didn't feel you were centred enough...

I totally agree with Hamsters post
Well Hamster said and thanks for your contributions on this thread, they've given me a greater understanding of a complicated situation

2BthatUnnoticed · 22/08/2019 14:44

Welcome back OP! So lovely to see you again Flowers

Believe it or not, MN posters do not actually control what newspapers publish. The thread is available to the public though, and they’re welcome to read it.

It’s odd, some TW are always saying how awful MN is. But they very rarely evidence it with screenshots. I wonder why that is?

OhHimAgain · 22/08/2019 14:48

There is no reasoning with people who are not prepared to engage in reasoned debate.

Huh?

You didn't attempt a 'reasoned debate'. You had a strop and disappeared Grin and the conversation continued without you.

OhHimAgain · 22/08/2019 14:50

If you're so ate up by what I originally posted

Oh, and it's 'eaten'. Not ate.

GCAcademic · 22/08/2019 14:55

Careful - your ego and misogyny is showing. You essentially took a big dump in the middle of the forum then ran off - not answering any questions that were posed to you.

Then you come back, gloat, and scream "look at me!", "look at me!" like a petulant child.

It's ok though, the grown-ups had an interesting discussion while you were away.

This pretty much sums it up. A few years ago, when I hadn't really experienced the behaviour of transsexual males, I was prepared to accept them as women, in principle. Now it's glaringly obvious that the patriarchal shitting on women and the entitlement of males to be centred in everything, including feminism, are behaviours they just can't leave behind, no matter how they modify their bodies. Socialisation is powerful, even when you claim to reject it.

So, going back to the OP's original rant:

For the zillionth time WE are NOT the problem. This entire farce was started by the self ID demands of the TG crowd.

Yes, you are part of the problem. Self-ID is a fucking big problem, but it's the inevitable end point of the fiction that men can become women. The entire concept is the problem.

ReSistering · 22/08/2019 14:59

There is no evidence provided for any of OPs bitter remonstrance at the awful existence of theirs.

It says to me, all women are hateful, noone listens (how ironic!) and oh yes, sexism, and mysogyny, oh and yes, threats that we're touching women already without them knowing.

All good healthy debate toxic diatribe

Genderwitched · 22/08/2019 15:02

the biggest reaction over a trans issue

Hardly!! I'd say that the biggest threads about trans were easily the "I am Spartacus" threads, they were absolutely massive and very important.

Datun · 22/08/2019 15:03

Well precisely.

Touching women without them knowing, crowing about it, saying you'll never get rid of us, imagining sexual abuse is 'irksome', calling us every name under the sun, and at the same time...shrieking 'but we're not the problem' !

emerencemaybehopeful · 22/08/2019 15:07

I've just spent way too long too late at night catching up with this thread.

The OPs return was a surprise twist, though their belief that the thread is about them reminds me of a song I heard once. Not Joni Mitchell.

I think it's a good thing Mumsnet deleted Detroit's post. If it had been left we would not all know that it had been reported. That someone thought it was fucking offensive for a woman to discuss her fear of men with other women.

I really appreciate some of the posts by @Barracker @Datun @RedToothBrush and @LangCleg amongst others. There are some ideas there that are new and which I want to think about more. I'm interested in unpacking the idea that by even giving something a name we give validity to the idea, and this can be damaging. Fairytales have been warning us for generations that names are truly powerful.

The desire those who seek to be us have to stop us talking is revealing, isn't it? The gloating about spinster being down for a few minutes. The reporting.

AllNaturalWoman · 22/08/2019 15:10

Interesting stylistically 'Joanne' and 'Joanna' posts are very similar so reasonable to surmise they are the same poster. A slip when changing name which make sure me wonder what name they've posted under in between?

Reply was misogynistic in its use of cackling and their nasty description of the thread is clearly just wrong which is visible to all.

But the ego Grin Grin Grin
seriously mate you really need to get out more, if you read the discussion it's not all about you

AllNaturalWoman · 22/08/2019 15:12

Ffs autocorrect on this site when you're dyslexic is a mare

'Makes me wonder' shouldn't have a stray 'sure' Confused

ErrolTheDragon · 22/08/2019 15:13

I reported the new post, MNHQ are checking if it's the OP or an impersonator.
I wouldn't bother expending energy on it till they've had a chance to do so.

SheWhoMustBeSilent · 22/08/2019 15:18

Faced with such numbers full of hate and absurd theories over what a transsexual actually is (because you never wanted to know in the first place)

We know that the overwhelming majority of men who undertake medical and surgical body modifications are autogynephiles.

LangCleg · 22/08/2019 15:20

Russnfussn! I missed return of OP!

(Still naffed off with MNHQ.)

JoMumsnet · 22/08/2019 15:24

[quote ErrolTheDragon ]I reported the new post, MNHQ are checking if it's the OP or an impersonator.
I wouldn't bother expending energy on it till they've had a chance to do so.[/quote]

We've checked and can't see any connection between the OP and this poster (bar the similar username Hmm) so we've deleted the post.

OP, if that was you and you'd like to come back on the thread, you need to post from your original account.