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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Transsexual women face erasure

999 replies

joannegosling2 · 16/08/2019 22:45

It's a fine state of affairs isn't it?

Please - before the administrators axe this post, at least hear me out.

August 2019 - Transsexual women (not the self ID-seeking transgender - I refer to those of us who surgically transition lock, stock and barrel under strict medical supervision but whose narratives have been appropriated by the TG activists and advertised as their own) now being clobbered by feminists, not only here but every where else on the internet too, whether it be on TGN or this new Spinster group I've heard about. I understand the voice of feminism on the latter has reached unseen heights of extremism.

In fact, if I may say, equally as extreme as the trans activists whom feminists have been resisting for quite some time now. But what a difference a week makes. It seems they are now mounting a full-on attack on their own allies - we transsexuals (who are no less
appalled by the behaviour of the transgenderists and feel equally threatened by them), suggesting we are exactly like those same people with no respect at all for women. AND IT IS CATCHING ON.

They insult us further by calling us men and insisting we submit to male pronouns and acknowledge the absurd assumption that we benefit from male privilege (whatever that is, I surely never realized there was any).

For the zillionth time WE are NOT the problem. This entire farce was started by the self ID demands of the TG crowd. It is true - and we recognise - that women are fighting for their rights as never before. But regrettably there are certain feminist agitators who now see this as a golden opportunity to rid the streets and social life of not only
cross-dressing men who seek to enter their spaces but transsexuals too. To this end they have petitioned MPs to scrap the Gender Recognition Act which affords some legal protection to us...which by happy coincidence (though for different reasons) is exactly what their enemies demand also.

So here the two opposing sides have found common ground, and the politicians, having had the wool pulled over their eyes by the TRAs using narratives stolen from us, are joyfully legislating to bring peace and harmony to our troubled society. Cross-dressers will have their self ID on condition they respect segregated spaces and women will be safe from men in their toilets. And we will all live happily ever after.

Not so for us transsexuals. Someone somewhere has decided that we must be the sacrificial lamb to enable this to happen. We must cease to exist as a group. And not existing together with self ID being in place means it will be deemed no longer appropriate to transition via surgical means. Consequently all such treatment, once tailored purely for he needs of transsexuals, will vanish forever.

I hear women repeat over and over that they were never consulted about 'old-school' transsexuals using their spaces like we have done for years. Since in all probability many of you here weren't even born when I had my operation some 30 years ago that would have been rather difficult. And besides I don't recall being consulted about these outrageous proposals to erase me and my compatriots from society. There are certain well-known individuals on social media claiming to be transsexual but who eagerly cow to feminist insistence that they be labelled men. If they are happy to be blokes, fine. But they
certainly do NOT speak for most of us. I will NOT degrade myself in that way just to please others - nor to seek validation.

Personally it matters little whether women accept me or not. They never did when I was trying my best to present myself in the male role either. That used to hurt me a lot. But now I've grown harder. If the feminists treat their allies worse than they do their enemies, then they do not deserve allies. Whilst still supporting women's concerns in general, transsexuals are also entitled to fight for their existence - especially in the face of so many seeking their total erasure.

I believe feminists have singled us out for one simple reason. Thanks to our years of serious and medicated transitioning (unlike the TG community) many of us pass so well women cannot tell should they brush by us in their toilets. (If you have they're most probably cross-dressers). This I feel is what irks them most as it makes it near impossible to keep us out. So the fewer transsexuals enabled to transition, the less will be in their spaces.

I refuse to pay atonement for the sins of transgender activists. I'm sorry but I just cannot accept that from now on we be barred from women's toilets and hospital wards. For I can tell you it will not stop there. Next it will be parks, libraries, shopping centres and schools -
indeed any place where there are children. Apartheid sound familiar?

So know this Mumsnetters. I shall go on using women's toilets as I've done for half my life now. Not because I'm some misogynistic, foul-mouthed lager-drinking bloke who seeks to undermine or abuse women as many feminists seem to relish believing these days, but to
quietly assert my right to exist; you see I do it in the context of the time when black people once sat at segregated lunch counters enduring terrible abuse and violence from bigots.

Feminists can so do their worst. We few transsexuals who are left have nothing to lose now.

OP posts:
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Hamster00 · 22/08/2019 12:32

Indeed many are quite proud of the boob and penis combo.

I've never understood this personally. I can only equate it to AGP / some kind of weird porn fetish (especially as the TRAs colloquially refer to their hormones, namely oestrogen as 'tit tacs' or '"femme & m's" etc).

This is the bit I don't get.. and it might be a bit tmi for some but bear with me (I'll try and be as non graphic as possible).

The standard hormone regime from a proper medical endocrinologist is oestrogen + an anti-androgen, the latter to block the testosterone.

When I was put on my anti-androgen (in this case Decapeptyl SR - 3 monthly injection), after a couple of months everything below the waist just...well...just wasn't interested anymore. Libido dropped and that was that. After a while, there's a general atrophy of the tissue (ie 'shrinkage').

The 'genuine' transsexual (and I hate the word but easier to prove a point), WANTS the offending organ removed, and is quite happy with it NOT 'working as intended' because of the extreme feelings of dysphoria.

For me personally, I hated it, and didn't even want to go near it apart for hygiene reasons. Just seeing it was distressing. (Although my GI issues were a 'lovely' mix of extreme body dysmorphia + dysphoria as a secondary component).

Why anyone who is 'claiming' they're trans and wants to express their 'fluffy pink gender feelz' while retaining their penis is beyond me. I just don't get it... at all. It HAS to be AGP - it can't be anything else....

Also - "fun fact". Before you take Decapeptyl, you're put on Cyproterone Acetate for 7 days to stop a T-surge during the first injection. They give Cyproterone Acetate to paedophiles/sex offenders to chemically castrate them. Cyproterone Acetate is also NOTORIOUS for causing severe clinical depression and suicidal ideation. Some trans-folk end up on it for years because their health authority wont pay for Decapeptyl (which is a very expensive prostate cancer drug).

EmpressLesbianInChair · 22/08/2019 12:35

Indeed many are quite proud of the boob and penis combo.

That’s revolting.

2BthatUnnoticed · 22/08/2019 12:37

Yes, something weird is going on with the Talk Guidelines.

This is what led to Detroit getting deleted [not having a go at the other poster who I won’t name]. And then, following on from that:

  1. Detroit: I’m allowed to be upset.
  1. Other poster: my post wasn’t aimed at you.
  1. *Detroit:” wasn’t it? I feel this is gaslighting {the post came directly after Detroit’s but 75 mins later - not a x-post. It began “Hi Americans”}
  1. Someone: reports Detroit’s comment.
  1. MN: deletes Detroit’s comment.
Transsexual women face erasure
Transsexual women face erasure
2BthatUnnoticed · 22/08/2019 12:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn - duplicate post.

Grimbles · 22/08/2019 12:42

Firstly, Detroit Flowers I stand with you.

Secondly, with the earlier talk of 'effeminate men', what exactly makes a man effeminate?

Datun · 22/08/2019 13:02

Secondly, with the earlier talk of 'effeminate men', what exactly makes a man effeminate?

I was going to mention that. It's interesting that people view that term effeminate as derogatory. Is that because anything connected to feminine is simply second-class, as it's tied to women?

SophoclesTheFox · 22/08/2019 13:05

reporting Detroit, is a new low, even for the most trigger happy monitor (likely candidate seems obvious). MNHQ, I’m always cognisant of the fine line that you’re treading, but that is one insensitive modding decision.

When you report a post like Detroit’s you do know that all it achieves it underscoring how little actual women’s experiences mean to you, and how little you care about them, right? Is that not obvious?

NonnyMouse1337 · 22/08/2019 13:13

males with tampon/ sanitary towel fetishes stalking the bins to retrieve and use them as soon as possible after disposal.

Omg I hadn't thought of this angle before Confused ugh I feel so ill at the thought of the transwomen with the period fetish doing this. Gah!

2BthatUnnoticed · 22/08/2019 13:14

I won’t derail more after this, but wanted to highlight a recurring pattern lately. It was seen at the NSPCC a while back and is illustrated here too.

  1. People who query potentially problematic behaviour are silenced (“don’t bully our employees” NSPCC / “not in the spirit”).
  1. Legitimate questions and discussion about boundaries and rights are re-characterised as bullying, as a personal attack.
  1. Discussion,mcritique
2BthatUnnoticed · 22/08/2019 13:15

(Sorry random final line - agh need an edit window!)

Joisanofthedales · 22/08/2019 13:17

I am spitting bullets that 1) Detroit's post was reported and 2) the mods deleted it. In my mind this feels like the mods put the feelings of someone who often posts unpleasantly over the feelings and well being of a woman (that's a natal woman) who is in crisis and needs our support. ffs have some humanity.
Detroit Flowers

2BthatUnnoticed · 22/08/2019 13:20

“Effeminate man” does seem negative somehow, although not sure why.

“Feminine man” sounds fine though. I think Fionne O, for example, is a feminine man.

LangCleg · 22/08/2019 13:20

2BthatUnnoticed - thank you for the series of events.

If this is what happened, I cannot even begin to understand the reversing of in the spirit involved.

MNHQ - what were you thinking?

LangCleg · 22/08/2019 13:21

If this site can no longer give some leeway to traumatised women fleeing abuse it has seriously lost its way.

So fucking disappointed in you, MNHQ.

AllNaturalWoman · 22/08/2019 13:23

When you report a post like Detroit' you do know all it achieved is underscoring how little actual wome's experience mean to you, and how little you care about them...

This

And whilst it's been said already it bears repeating

When MNHQ comply with the demand it be deleted we know who has the power and privilege (and spoiler alert it's not females) and how little our (female) fear and anguish matter

sanluca · 22/08/2019 13:23

MNHQ, you were in the wrong deleting Detroits post. Putting someone elses feelings of being offended over someone's FEAR.

OhHimAgain · 22/08/2019 13:23

“Effeminate man” does seem negative somehow, although not sure why

Because it's only ever used as an insult not a neutral descriptor. The thinking being that no man would ever want to be thought of as being like a woman.

'Feminine man' has no such connotations because it's a fairly new, and therefore, neutral way of describing a man.

AllNaturalWoman · 22/08/2019 13:27

Occurs to me there's probably more than one watcher who would prefer this thread be taken down, this is getting to the stage where it may be worth stopping here and maybe picking up some of the threads in new posts?

Detroit, I know you will need to be cautious but I wonder if we would be allowed a post where you can expand a bit more on your experiences and needs and we ask MNHQ not to censor to the same extent?

Michelleoftheresistance · 22/08/2019 13:28

Interesting isn't it how so many words referencing anything female are considered derogatory.

Even insults from throws like a girl/runs like girl/screams like a girl right through cow/bitch to twat and worse - all normal every day things but insulting because female. Women even parody themselves if they're asked to run like a girl/fight like a girl

Which obeys the rule that manly is best and superior and the more manly the higher status. It's toxic masculinity policing itself.

OhHimAgain · 22/08/2019 13:33

Interesting isn't it how so many words referencing anything female are considered derogatory.

Quite.

And I think it's one of the reasons TW have gained so much sympathy and support.

After all, no right thinking man would choose to he a woman so 1) if they say they are, they must be and 2) they are doubly disadvantaged because they should he enjoying life as a man but can't because they are afflicted with feeling soft 'womanness'. Ergo, they are the most vulnerable group of all and to he pitied.

Cascade220 · 22/08/2019 13:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DuMondeB · 22/08/2019 14:03

Here’s a quote from a Reddit user, found today.

This is their reaction to women’s concerns - taking delight in how powerful it makes them feel, enjoying the fearful reaction they cause.

Transsexual women face erasure
joannagosling2 · 22/08/2019 14:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Michelleoftheresistance · 22/08/2019 14:11

Sheesh Du

Just when you think you're used to how utterly and childishly selfish these people can be...

Just 'existing'. Innocently. Just being themselves. While openly admitting the subtext of fuck the effect on everyone else and every one's subordinate identities and realities, which are quite a power thrill really.

It's one endless round of 'ah you're beautiful when you're angry darling' just with less builders bum involved.

Michelleoftheresistance · 22/08/2019 14:16

because I humbly asked to be allowed to exist within society.

Did anybody spot the humble bit?

Was it before or after the 'So know this Mumsnetters. I shall go on using women's toilets' part?

Please also point out the 'appalling bullying' (by which you actually mean 'disagreeing' treating like any other MNetter' and 'refusing to centre') and try reading a few of the posts here to re think 'never done any harm'. But also feel free to sail in, plop away, completely ignore the thread trying to communicate what women's concerns actually are, and dash off in a haze of superiority.