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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Shocking behaviour towards lesbians at Leeds 'pride' today

999 replies

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 06/08/2019 18:25

Thread 2

Previous thread here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3656142-Shocking-behaviour-towards-lesbians-at-Leeds-pride-today

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18
RedDogsBeg · 07/08/2019 13:50

As I said earlier, the Pup Play Tent was endorsed by the Pride committee, the Pride committee state that Pride is an event that is family friendly.

If the Pup Play tent was supposed to be adult only it should have been clearly signposted that it was, by both the organisers of Pride and the occupants of the tent. Those within the tent should have insisted that children be kept away not invite children in then sit next to them with a massive erection.

None of this was done therefore the Pride committee and the occupants of that tent are perfectly happy with it. Pride didn't even condemn it after the event when the pictures went viral and people asked questions.

So, yes, massive safeguarding failure by Pride and do they care? Not one iota. So what reasonable conclusion can be drawn from that?

Datun · 07/08/2019 13:50

Is it lesbophobic to suggest lesbians should have an opinion on who they date? Because to me, it seems lesbophobic to suggest the opposite.

Lol.

Such nonsense.

MsMcWibble · 07/08/2019 13:51

I really really don't want to see this myself. Will keep well away from any town that has Pride running.

Wishihad · 07/08/2019 13:52

Is it lesbophobic to suggest lesbians should have an opinion on who they date? Because to me, it seems lesbophobic to suggest the opposite.

It's not about opinion. It's about facts. Anyone can date who they want.

If they are a biological woman dating a biological man, they are not lesbians.

So it's not about lesbians having opinions on who they can date. They are only lesbians if they are biological women, dating biological women.

Anything else is lesphobic.

And can you answer why it's so important to these people and to you, for women who date biological men to cling on to a word that does not describe them.

Datun · 07/08/2019 13:52

So, yes, massive safeguarding failure by Pride and do they care? Not one iota. So what reasonable conclusion can be drawn from that?

Oh I know.

These people in their own fetish tent may well have been engaging in sexual games, then some children walked past and came in to stroke the dogs and BAM pedo! I don’t know what happened, neither do you.

I don’t think one picture of someone ‘excited’ in a fetish tent while kids stroke the dogs without context is indicative of pride being pedo friendly though.

The man in question may we’ll have been, I don’t know.

Earlywalker · 07/08/2019 13:52

You’re all focusing on pup fetish tents.
Pride has always included fetish’s. People know this.
I’m not sure that will change to include children because pride isn’t about children, it’s about LGBT.
I agree it shouldn’t happen. It doesn’t make anyone automatically a pedophile.

The issues we have been arguing against, which you all seem desperate to skim over and ignore in favour of other things is this:

saying that pedophiles attend pride while being open about their pedophilic intentions, and that these people are welcomed and embraced by LGBT people. So much so that they even have their own float, when there is no evidence of any of this. Appears to me like an attempt to smear the LGBT community. That is my issue. The protestors had a right to protest, the others had a right to protest back, that’s my opinion

Anyway, 5 mins till kids are home so byeee

merrymouse · 07/08/2019 13:53

I have asked where it stated the tent was family friendly as this is what it boils down too.

That isn't how public space works.

If age based restrictions aren't advertised and enforced it is assumed that a space is suitable for all.

If there were specific areas for children and the parents took their kids over to somewhere not family friendly, that is the parents safeguarding issue.

Not sure how you identify a 'family friendly' space (crayons and colouring sheets?) but most children aren't restricted to places that are specifically 'family friendly'. Even if that were a reasonable way to bring up children, many children don't have a handy guardian constantly on hand to check whether every space they enter is 'family friendly'.

Trohmaniac · 07/08/2019 13:54

My town had a two-day Pride festival last weekend - it was MASSIVELY billed as a family-friendly event.

I saw a lot of children coming back from it with their parents.

I've also seen a woman leading a man on a leash through our town centre, in the middle of the day, so I wonder if there was any fet-play going on at this festival.

RosesAndRaindrops · 07/08/2019 13:54

Why is it bullying on here? But not at pride?

Is it an either or situation?
What's happening here is, so what if it's not doxxing, baseball bats etc like implied?
Doesn't mean just because it's not any of that that it can't be.

At LGBT Pride, people were protesting against trans people.
You really expect that to be ignored?
That you go to a parade celebrating everyone, protest against transpeople, and think it won't be condemned?
Get called out on it and "we're only little women" - comes across as victim mentality.
Because you're a woman, or a lesbian, you can't ever be disagreed with or ever challenged? (Challenged as in chanted back at, not advocating violence or ANYTHING of the sort before my words get completely twisted, just making perfectly clear)
As that's how it comes across/

Earlywalker · 07/08/2019 13:55

Trohmaniac I’ve already said several times that adults engaging children in sexual activities is paedophilic behaviour.

Wishihad · 07/08/2019 13:55

I agree it shouldn’t happen. It doesn’t make anyone automatically a pedophile.

Engaging children in your sexual gratification and fet play, does make you you a peadophile. That's also a fact.

2BthatUnnoticed · 07/08/2019 13:55

Roses

Two questions:

  1. Why wouldn’t TW choose their own word just for them? It would solve it, no? Kind of rude to claim a word that for 2000 years meant X and say, not only “it means Y now!” but “believe Y or you are a bigot!”
  1. Why must the feelings of TW (who believe lesbians can have penises) take precedence over those of the lesbians (who believe they do not)?
Trohmaniac · 07/08/2019 13:56

This reply has been deleted

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JessicaWakefieldSV · 07/08/2019 13:56

Is it lesbophobic to suggest lesbians should have an opinion on who they date? Because to me, it seems lesbophobic to suggest the opposite.

It’s lesbophobic to state lesbians engage in sexual activity with males. That makes them bi, there’s nothing wrong with that.

Early, don’t demand things of me. I’m not obligated to you in any way.

Trohmaniac · 07/08/2019 13:57

Trohmaniac I’ve already said several times that adults engaging children in sexual activities is paedophilic behaviour.

No, not in general. In this situation. I'd like you to be very clear in how you answer wrt Leeds Pride and children being enticed to play with pups sporting an erection.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 07/08/2019 13:57

Engaging children in your sexual gratification and fet play, does make you you a peadophile. That's also a fact.

Correct.

Lesbians don’t sleep with males

Also fact.

merrymouse · 07/08/2019 13:58

Pride has always included fetish’s.

I'm not sure whether that is historically true, (I think it would depend which Pride marches you included), but leaving that aside it's a bit odd to include fetishes now because

  1. Heterosexual people also have fetishes. You might as well link Pride to golf.
  2. Pride is now marketed as an event that is suitable for all.
Trohmaniac · 07/08/2019 13:59

At LGBT Pride, people were protesting against trans people.

No, they weren't. You keep saying that and it's 100% not true. They were protesting their own rights. At no point did they say anything against trans people. They are on video as calling trans people beautiful and saying 'we love you'.

Stop lying or provide evidence to prove what you say.

Michelleoftheresistance · 07/08/2019 13:59

If some lesbians do want to include transwomen, why can't they?

No one is saying women shouldn't have sex with trans women. Just that if they do, they are not lesbians.

Good post, WishIhad

If it's taken down to brass tacks:

Lesbian has always meant biological women with an exclusive orientation to other biological women.

Many lesbian women arrived at lesbianism via sex with men that was unsatisfying or less for them than sex with women, (whole lot of stuff around female oppression and the straitjacket of sex stereotypes relevant here) but then chose an exclusive orientation towards biological women only. For biological women who orient to both male and female sexual partners there's the word bisexual. Nothing wrong with either term and everyone knows what it means.

Then along came identity politics and transgenderism.

Who is attempting to redefine the word 'lesbian' to mean just a label that anyone can select for themselves regardless of biological sex?

Men and supporters of men: not lesbians themselves.

Why have those men and their supporters wished to redefine what lesbian means?

To include men in lesbianism.

Who does this redefinition benefit?

Men who wish to call themselves lesbians, and who wish to have exclusively biologically female oriented people as sexual partners as the ultimate validation of their transition since lesbian women only obviously sleep with other women.

Who does this re definition harm?

Women with an exclusive biologically female orientation who wish to continue to be out and proud, to meet in spaces with only other lesbians who are biologically female and exclusively biologically female oriented, and to not be insulted and pressured to 'overcome their genital preference' (conversion therapy, not allowed in terms of trans people but downright good for women who won't 'include' men in their bodies apparently) and to place the validation of males over and above their own desire and rights to choice, boundaries, satisfying and enjoyable sex and to express their own sexuality. Women who do not believe that men become women and are not willing to pretend.

Basically, lesbians.

The re definition is an act of hostile colonisation. It is men telling women who they are, what they may do, what their boundaries may be and what will happen to them if they do not obey. It is an aggressive act of harassment, and it is homophobic in that it frames a woman expressing an exclusive orientation to other biological females as something negative, shameful and deserving of punishment.

Wishihad · 07/08/2019 14:00

At LGBT Pride, people were protesting against trans people.

No they werent. That's factually wrong.

You really expect that to be ignored? That you go to a parade celebrating everyone, protest against transpeople, and think it won't be condemned?

And yet you think people should ignored your lesphobia on here. An example of that would be saying the the protesters, protested against trans people. They didnt.

Get called out on it and "we're only little women" - comes across as victim mentality.

No different to you complaining that lots of posters disagree with you, which is bullying. The TRAs surrounded the protestors, swore, insulted and tried to have them removed. You complained people were tryo g to push you off this thread, insulted you. No one has physically intimated you. But again you are being bullied, those women werent. So which is it? Small group of people being challenged on their opinion, is being bullied or it's not?

You cant claim you are being bullied but those women were not.

Because you're a woman, or a lesbian, you can't ever be disagreed with or ever challenged?

Factually incorrect again. No one has said that. The TRAs didnt simply shout some slogans as they passed by, did they?

Trohmaniac · 07/08/2019 14:01

Pride has always included fetish’s.

How long has fetish been a sexual orientation then? If you mean it's always included leather, that's a very different thing.

Was there a leather tent at Pride enticing children to come and play with the men in leather while one of them had an erection? Haven't seen any evidence of that. Only the pups fetish tent.

2BthatUnnoticed · 07/08/2019 14:02

The lesbians said “look at all you beautiful transpeople!” And explained they had no issue with persons but with ideology.

I walked past a protest against the Catholic Church once - re CSE.

It was not an attack on me. It was a protest against an institution, for failing to protect vulnerable people.

Do you not see?

RosesAndRaindrops · 07/08/2019 14:02

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Quotes deleted post

merrymouse · 07/08/2019 14:02

Appears to me like an attempt to smear the LGBT community.

No, because there is a very clear split in the community between people who still think the focus of Pride should be gay rights and organisations like Stonewall who no longer seem to know what their purpose is.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 07/08/2019 14:02

Entering a board that’s predominantly GC and engaging with posters, non-stop, stating your opinions, and then having other users critique those opinions, is not bullying. The ‘pile on’ happens because most strongly disagree with you so you will get a lot of opposing opinions when yours is in the minority. If you don’t like it, you don’t have to stay, there are plenty of other platforms you can chat on if it enrages you to hear your views being strongly disagreed with. This is the only one for women who want to speak freely about trans issues and women’s rights. It’s not you being bullied off anywhere, it’s us. Stay, go, whatever... just don’t claim bullying is happening because your views gross people out and we can actually say so here.

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