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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

To those who visit the board and believe in gender identity, what is your solution?

442 replies

Doyoumind · 01/08/2019 13:21

I've been on Twitter again and seen another interesting thread but I'm not going to post it here so it can be picked apart.

Instead, although I know it's been asked before, to those of you who believe someone can be a woman without biologically being one I ask the question: What do you think should be put in place in law to provide safe spaces for trans people and women and what are you doing about it?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Biancadelrioisback · 01/08/2019 17:33

I do agree with you Doyou. I really feel for many trans people who are swept in with the few who are trying to erase biological women or use trans as a way to have 'access' to women. You can never know someone's true motive until you know them which doesn't help with the whole toilet/changing room debate. Do I think that someone who identifies as female but born a man should be able to access women's aid for example? No. Because the risk isn't worth taking. However I do very strongly believe that they should have access to support and away from criticism and hate.
I believe that a third space is an answer that should be seriously considered. At the end of the day, a trans person will always know they are trans. That is a fact.

LonginesPrime · 01/08/2019 17:33

Well, Bianca, I can only speak to the LGBT circles I frequent, but I do hear comments that same-sex attracted lesbians are bigots being thrown about by seemingly liberal people (trans and non-trans) quite frequently nowadays and I speak to lesbians too afraid to assert their own boundaries in public.

I'm not suggesting that all trans people feel like this, or that they call everyone else bigots, but I do think that lesbians are reviled for being 'anti-penis' nowadays.

OldCrone · 01/08/2019 17:33

Any chance of answering the question I asked you earlier, TheNavigator?

What does it mean to 'live as the opposite sex'? I'm a woman. If I wanted to live as a man, how would I go about it?

Or maybe you could answer, PetrolBastard, since you talk about people 'living as a woman'.

How is living as a man different from living as a woman? Is this another of those questions that people can never answer?

OldCrone · 01/08/2019 17:37

I just do not recognise any 'sense' of being female. I never have. I've never thought "I feel female".

We are all either male or female. I don't see how anyone can say they 'feel female' or 'feel male', because they don't know what it is like to be the opposite sex, because they've never experienced it.

So if a woman like roses says that she 'feels female', how does she know that what she is feeling is 'feeling female' rather than just feeling like herself. She has no idea what it is like to be male, so she can't know what it is like to feel male either.

This is totally unlike sexual attraction, where we all know whether we are attracted to men, women, both or neither.

NeverSayFreelance · 01/08/2019 17:39

I think gender identity should be recognised and accepted. I think gender neutral/unisex bathrooms should exist alongside(!!) single sex bathrooms. I think people should stop being so hard on trans people who are already living a very difficult life as it is.

I'm sorry there are women who feel threatened by trans people (trans women really) but these trans people also feel threatened by us and they deserve to live free from that.

WhoIsTheFairestOfThemAll · 01/08/2019 17:40

I live as a human. I do all the things that humans do.

I am a woman but I don't live as one.

NeverSayFreelance · 01/08/2019 17:40

I also feel there needs to be better education of gender dysphoria. The reason people can't understand "feeling" a certain gender is because they don't experience dysphoria. I don't know what a heart attack feels like but I know people have them.

Fieldofgreycorn · 01/08/2019 17:41

We have the solution already.
The existing system that checks for gender dysphoria before issuing a grc is fine.

RosesAndRaindrops · 01/08/2019 17:42

What does it mean to 'live as the opposite sex'? I'm a woman. If I wanted to live as a man, how would I go about it?

Surely it means to live as the opposite sex as much as you can?
I mean, I'm a biological female.
If I was wanting to become a man though (which I don't) it'd mean outwardly living and presenting as a man as much as possible.
I mean you can't change your biology, but you could live and present as a man.

Original poster
Doyoumind · 01/08/2019 17:47

Freelance the issue is that you are behind the times. Having dysphoria is no longer a requirement of being trans. The trans lobby doesn't want a separate space. That won't do for them.

OP posts:
DickKerrLadies · 01/08/2019 17:48

I think gender identity should be recognised and accepted.

I disagree with this.

Gender dysphoria is not the same as gender identity. People who suffer from gender dysphoria should receive proper support for any and all mental health conditions rather than be pushed towards intensive, invasive and sometimes irreversible medical treatment that may not even ease their dysphoria.

GRCs were homophobic from the start, I don't see why we need them anymore now that same-sex marriage has finally been legalised.

I think rather than legislating for 'gender identity', any hate crime committed due to somebody's gender identity should count as lifestyles and subcultures, as in the Sophie Lancaster case www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9971003/Mother-of-goth-victim-welcomes-hate-crime-law-change.html

We should be able to deal with prejudice and discrimination towards trans people without having to lose single-sex spaces.

PetrolBastard · 01/08/2019 17:51

You see? We're getting into the same circular discussion again. What is a woman, what is living as a woman. Everyone already knows these things.

WatchOutForTheHobgoblin · 01/08/2019 17:52

I also feel there needs to be better education of gender dysphoria

Unnecessary.

The TRAs are quite clear that the requirement to experience 'dysphoria' is no longer and those who talk about experiencing dysphoria are rejected are freely as those they call T*.

The reason many of them want self id is because the current gatekeeping excludes them as they are not dysphoric.

Those who truly feel dysphoric are being thrown under the train as much as women are.

RosesAndRaindrops · 01/08/2019 17:52

You see? We're getting into the same circular discussion again. What is a woman, what is living as a woman. Everyone already knows these things.

Yep,
never
ending
circular
roundabout

what is a woman
oh lolz it's the feelz
g'wan g'wan define woman
no not like that
so what is a woman?

lol

DickKerrLadies · 01/08/2019 17:52

Not so, Petrol, plenty of posters up thread saying that they don't know the answers.

WatchOutForTheHobgoblin · 01/08/2019 17:54

DickKerrLadies

Totally agree with everything you've said so far.

Original poster
Doyoumind · 01/08/2019 17:54

Of course. Short hair and trousers = man. Long hair and dresses = woman. It's so simple.

OP posts:
RosesAndRaindrops · 01/08/2019 17:55

Of course. Short hair and trousers = man. Long hair and dresses = woman. It's so simple

Erm...... OK. That's what was said. Confused

DickKerrLadies · 01/08/2019 17:56

Shame, I quite like blokes with long hair. And ones who wear eyeliner.

RosesAndRaindrops · 01/08/2019 17:56

Shame, I quite like blokes with long hair. And ones who wear eyeliner

So do I

PetrolBastard · 01/08/2019 17:57

It has nothing to do with the length of your hair. Being a woman and feeling like a woman is incredibly complex. We could have threads hundreds and hundreds of pages long about what it feels like to be a woman. Which is why it's the perfect topic to avoid the issue.

PetrolBastard · 01/08/2019 17:58

I like men with long hair and eyeliner too! Smile

Original poster
Doyoumind · 01/08/2019 18:07

I am very clear on what has made me feel like a woman: having periods, having boobs, having sex, being pregnant, giving birth, breastfeeding, employment issues due to being pregnant or being a mother, discrimination based on my sex, men grabbing at my body, men making me feel extremely uncomfortable. I don't have any problem whatsoever describing what being a woman is because it's all tied to my biology. It's extremely easy to define what a woman is. It's been easy to define for thousands of years.

OP posts:
RedDogsBeg · 01/08/2019 18:08

^If I was wanting to become a man though (which I don't) it'd mean outwardly living and presenting as a man as much as possible.
I mean you can't change your biology, but you could live and present as a man^.

Roses that is what you have said, ergo to live as a man requires no more than mere presentation and when asked what this presentation entails you won't/can't respond and you don't seem to grasp how insulting and reductive it is to reduce the human sexes to nothing more than mere presentation. Nor do you seem capable of understanding the intended and unintended consequences of that.

DickKerrLadies · 01/08/2019 18:11

We could have threads hundreds and hundreds of pages long about what it feels like to be a woman

I can believe that, I've read some on here. I've also been to baby groups and heard lots of stories about what it feels like to be a woman.

It's not relevant here though.