Women who refuse sex work may lose benefits (Germany)

[wigglybluelines]

Terrifying.

Are the public in Germany behind this? (Surely not?!)

A 25-year-old waitress who turned down a job providing "sexual services'' at a brothel in Berlin faces possible cuts to her unemployment benefit under laws introduced this year.

Prostitution was legalised in Germany just over two years ago and brothel owners – who must pay tax and employee health insurance – were granted access to official databases of jobseekers.

The waitress, an unemployed information technology professional, had said that she was willing to work in a bar at night and had worked in a cafe.

She received a letter from the job centre telling her that an employer was interested in her "profile'' and that she should ring them. Only on doing so did the woman, who has not been identified for legal reasons, realise that she was calling a brothel.

Under Germany's welfare reforms, any woman under 55 who has been out of work for more than a year can be forced to take an available job – including in the sex industry – or lose her unemployment benefit.

The government had considered making brothels an exception on moral grounds, but decided that it would be too difficult to distinguish them from bars. As a result, job centres must treat employers looking for a prostitute in the same way as those looking for a dental nurse.

More here:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/1482371/If-you-dont-take-a-job-as-a-prostitute-we-can-stop-your-benefits.html

Check this Wikipedia article, it actually mentions how the telegraph thing is untrue.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Germany

Why the brave call for relaxing prostitution laws in Germany when it's already legal and they have those amazing megabrothels that are do awesome and empowering for the women who work, and apparently often live, in them?

How much more relaxed can it be? The do whatever you like with as many 'girls' as you like (all you can eat buffet model) not generous enough?

I see.

Article from 2005. It wasn't true.

Megabrothels are real and horrifying.

"The pimp lobby however is very keen on an umbrella word."

Men have changed the meaning of women to include men but do not have the power to change prositution to mean all the women in the sex industry?

I am so glad men have reached the limit of their power!

They do have the power, sex work is used pretty much universally in politics and the media, and it is a term that includes a vast range of activities.

Sex work is work than is bollocks. Just like trans women are women. If it were work like any other, it should be offered as an option to graduating students, to unemployed women etc.

Women who want nordic model or say prostitution is a very very dangerous job that exploits women and girls (and to a lesser extent men and boys) all over the world are dismissed as 'Swerfs'.

Swerf and terf surely you're aware of this?

Swerf and sex work is work

Is the update on 'sex positivity' where anyone who thinks that prostitution is anything except fantastic is 'sex negative' aka a prude.

Same old shit. Men need to have female flesh to fuck for cheap or is the end of the world.

Why the brave call for relaxing prostitution laws in Germany when it's already legal and they have those amazing megabrothels that are do awesome and empowering for the women who work, and apparently often live, in them?

How much more relaxed can it be? The do whatever you like with as many 'girls' as you like (all you can eat buffet model) not generous enough?

There is no point relaxing laws in a legalised model, because legalisation doesn't work. I'm not sure anyone is calling for that.

Sex workers tend to want decriminalisation, not legalisation. They are different models.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2015/10/difference-between-decriminalisation-and-legalisation-sex-work%3famp

When I say I hate men, there is a big eyeroll and I will be asked - but what about your father, brother blah blah.

But when you point out that porn is used by their father, brother - they do nothing to stop them.

Men are still protected by their family - that needs to stop.

Women who want nordic model or say prostitution is a very very dangerous job that exploits women and girls (and to a lesser extent men and boys) all over the world are dismissed as 'Swerfs'.

Research shows that the Nordic model makes working conditions worse for sex workers, and allows violence against us to increase. It can be very difficult to believe that people have the best interests of sex workers in mind when they call for this model. Supporting a harm reduction model is not the same thing as being "pro-prostitution".

This review explains how criminalising buyers is bad for sex workers. How anyone can support it after reading this very thorough research I have no idea.

journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1002680

14-year old fake stories do nothing for the credibility of this forum.

"14-year old fake stories do nothing for the credibility of this forum."

Rapists and Liers get elected USA / UK (soon) Leaders.

But an honest mistake will hurt MN.

Thank you for your concern.

"14-year old fake stories do nothing for the credibility of this forum."

14-year old fake stories do nothing to assist the cause of anyone who opposes the normalisation of prostitution- of which I am one.

@BoglingToAswad that article is about criminalisation in general, which will mainly be of women, not buyers of sex.

@LassOfFyvie Prostitution can never be considered exactly the same as any other work, otherwise actually the premise of the article would apply, that a woman would have to accept to engage in it or lose her benefits. Also, if it is work, why would the government spend money in programmes to try to reduce it and help women leave it? Any programme designed to discourage work surely should not get funding?
If it is normal work, should it be offered as an option to graduating students? Should it be taught in school, like other professions?
Of course women should receive the same labour and human rights protections like any other worker, but this is as far as it goes.

"14-year old fake stories do nothing to assist the cause of anyone who opposes the normalisation of prostitution- of which I am one."

It was an honest mistake by the op.

Men get away with serial lying.

No need for one post to mean anything more.

Women (MN) held up to a higher standard?

Is the update on 'sex positivity' where anyone who thinks that prostitution is anything except fantastic is 'sex negative' aka a prude.

I'm good with being a prude.

The government had considered making brothels an exception on moral grounds, but decided that it would be too difficult to distinguish them from bars

WTAF?!?

LassOfFyvie Prostitution can never be considered exactly the same as any other work, otherwise actually the premise of the article would apply, that a woman would have to accept to engage in it or lose her benefits. Also, if it is work, why would the government spend money in programmes to try to reduce it and help women leave it? Any programme designed to discourage work surely should not get funding?
If it is normal work, should it be offered as an option to graduating students? Should it be taught in school, like other professions?
Of course women should receive the same labour and human rights protections like any other worker, but this is as far as it goes

Why on earth are you lecturing me about this?

that article is about criminalisation in general, which will mainly be of women, not buyers of sex.

No, it isn't. It examines criminalisation in all models, including when only clients are criminalised. I should also point out that workers under the Nordic model are still criminalised for working together or working outside.

"The qualitative synthesis showed that in contexts of any criminalisation, repressive policing of sex workers, their clients, and/or sex work venues disrupted sex workers’ work environments, support networks, safety and risk reduction strategies, and access to health services and justice. It demonstrated how policing within all criminalisation and regulation frameworks exacerbated existing marginalisation, and how sex workers’ relationships with police, access to justice, and negotiating powers with clients have improved in decriminalised contexts."

AlessandraAsteriti I have re- read my posts just in case there was a shred of ambiguity about my position in relation to prostitution. There isn't and I really do not appreciate your feministplaining lecture.

Posting 14 year old fake stories does nothing to help the credibility of anyone seeking to oppose the idea of prostitution being treated as "work".

Prostitution can never be considered exactly the same as any other work, otherwise actually the premise of the article would apply, that a woman would have to accept to engage in it or lose her benefits

Yes, and if sexual services become accepted as work, then what's to stop your boss adding a hand job once a week to your nice office job? If it's just work, what's the problem?

Thanks for the replies.

Those who disagree and think that 14-year old fake stories actually do enhance the credibility of this forum, haven’t convinced me yet!

@Lass
Expressing disagreement is not lecturing. I do not think prostitution can be 'normalised' as any other form of legal work for the reasons I gave. If you disagree that is fine. I am not lecturing. I am expressing an opinion. Which, instead of debating with your reasons, you criticise as lecturing. The equivalent of a toddler's temper tantrum. Bye

I don’t think Aless understood Lass’s writings.