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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women who refuse sex work may lose benefits (Germany)

197 replies

wigglybluelines · 21/07/2019 08:15

Terrifying.

Are the public in Germany behind this? (Surely not?!)

A 25-year-old waitress who turned down a job providing "sexual services'' at a brothel in Berlin faces possible cuts to her unemployment benefit under laws introduced this year.

Prostitution was legalised in Germany just over two years ago and brothel owners – who must pay tax and employee health insurance – were granted access to official databases of jobseekers.

The waitress, an unemployed information technology professional, had said that she was willing to work in a bar at night and had worked in a cafe.

She received a letter from the job centre telling her that an employer was interested in her "profile'' and that she should ring them. Only on doing so did the woman, who has not been identified for legal reasons, realise that she was calling a brothel.

Under Germany's welfare reforms, any woman under 55 who has been out of work for more than a year can be forced to take an available job – including in the sex industry – or lose her unemployment benefit.

The government had considered making brothels an exception on moral grounds, but decided that it would be too difficult to distinguish them from bars. As a result, job centres must treat employers looking for a prostitute in the same way as those looking for a dental nurse.

More here:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/1482371/If-you-dont-take-a-job-as-a-prostitute-we-can-stop-your-benefits.html

OP posts:
AlessandraAsteriti · 21/07/2019 08:58

Here is the updated situation for what concerns the law. No obligation to take on work in prostitution. www.prostituiertenschutzgesetz.info/wp-content/uploads/prostschg-textbausteine-en-data.pdf
Notice though no reference to pregnancy termination in the pregnancy advice section. That is because termination is still technically illegally, although not criminalised, so the State cannot advertise it or refer to it, and also State insurance companies cannot offer it as an option, so women have to pay for it even if insured (unless they are destitute).

DpWm · 21/07/2019 09:02

That is why sex workers support full decriminalisation

A lot of ex prostitutes support the Nordic Model.
Decriminalisation "works" for punters. Not prostitutes. Not society as a whole. Not women in general.

I did wonder when I read "prostitution was legalised two years ago" I thought it was much longer ago than that!
Old article but still a current topic, so no probs op.

DpWm · 21/07/2019 09:03

That is because termination is still technically illegally
Really? In Germany? Well I never.

CatteStreet · 21/07/2019 09:05

Just to add to/put more exactly the point about termination: it is still illegal/unlawful (so is criminalised), but not prosecuted within the first 14 weeks of pregnancy if the woman seeks counselling at least three days before the termination. (There are both Christian and secular advice centres which provide the counselling). There are longer time limits for rape and fetal abnormality (excuse the unpleasant phrase). It's an appalling fudge born out of a time when there were very strong anti-abortion forces in German society, but it largely works.

CatteStreet · 21/07/2019 09:07

There's been a recent case where a gynaecologist was prosecuted under a related law for 'advertising' terminations because she stated (neutrally and factually) on her website that she offers them. Her case is prompting a change in that law because so many felt it was unfair and wrong.

Isatis · 21/07/2019 09:08

Well no, since it wasn't true even at the time it was printed, it isn't still a current topic.

FannyCann · 21/07/2019 09:08

Hmm. What is Germany's position on surrogacy I wonder?

DuMondeB · 21/07/2019 09:08

That is why sex workers support full decriminalisation

You don’t speak for all sex workers.

CatteStreet · 21/07/2019 09:10

FannyCann - it's banned, as is PID.

I think you still have to be married to get IVF funded by statutory health insurance, as well. There's a lot of conservatism in laws around reproduction here still.

catwithnohat · 21/07/2019 09:17

Why are they called "sex workers" when the proper word is prostitutes?

Genuine question... is it meant to sound nicer?

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 21/07/2019 09:19

Excuse my ignorance but what is PID?

Google just gives me pelvic inflammatory disease.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 21/07/2019 09:20

So government sanctioned rape then?

FannyCann · 21/07/2019 09:22

Thanks CatteStreet
At least unemployed women won't be forced to become breeders then!

DpWm · 21/07/2019 09:28

Why are they called "sex workers" when the proper word is prostitutes?

Genuine question... is it meant to sound nicer?

Nothing to do with "being nice" or polite or anything.
Everything to do with normalising prostitution making it easier for punters and pimps to abuse women.

Erythronium · 21/07/2019 09:30

"That is why sex workers support full decriminalisation"

Pimps describe themselves as "sex workers". They do support full decriminalisation of prostitution.

Decriminalisation has led to this situation in Germany, massive abuse of women and industrialisation of prostititution:

s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/projects/welcome-to-paradise/

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 21/07/2019 09:31

I wonder if the job agency would send their mum or sister for the job?

wigglybluelines · 21/07/2019 09:32

*Why are they called "sex workers" when the proper word is prostitutes?

I thought sex work was a more general term, covering more than prostitution (ie paid sex).

Sex work also covers stuff like cam girls which isn't prostitution but It's still part of the sex industry.

But yes, I take your point that the term sex work could be used to make prostitution sound more respectable.

OP posts:
BoglingToAswad · 21/07/2019 09:33

Decriminalisation "works" for punters. Not prostitutes. Not society as a whole. Not women in general

Decriminalisation allows sex workers to work together and it gives sex workers the same employment rights that most other people have, among other things. It doesn't decriminalise abuse, coercion or trafficking, and it makes it easier for sex workers to report these things. Would you prefer us to be further marginalised?

You don’t speak for all sex workers

Well of course I don't! But I am of the same opinion as the majority of them on the subject of decriminalisation.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 21/07/2019 09:34

Thank god for Snopes!

DpWm · 21/07/2019 09:36

PID Pre implantation diagnostic
As part of IVF you can DNA check for hereditary disorders in an embryo before implanting it in the womb. Banned in Germany? Another surprise.

BoglingToAswad · 21/07/2019 09:36

Pimps describe themselves as "sex workers". They do support full decriminalisation of prostitution

I don't know any sex worker who would describe a pimp as a sex worker (unless they were also having sex for money). I've also never heard a pimp say it. I'm not sure where you have heard this.

Decriminalisation has led to this situation in Germany, massive abuse of women and industrialisation of prostititution:

Germany doesn't have decriminalisation, they have legalisation. They are different models with different approaches.

CatteStreet · 21/07/2019 09:37

Pre-implantation diagnostics (= genetic screening of embryos to exclude certain conditions). Not related to surrogacy as such, but an example of the German attitudes to issues around reproduction and fertility. Tbf, that's banned for (from the specific German perspective) very sound historical reasons.

DuMondeB · 21/07/2019 09:37

Well of course I don't! But I am of the same opinion as the majority of them on the subject of decriminalisation

Bollocks. Most ‘sex workers’ parrot the lines fed them by those that profit from their ‘work’.

You know absolutely fuck all about ‘sex work’.

CatteStreet · 21/07/2019 09:37

(Argh, meant to say that was an answer to what PID is)

BoglingToAswad · 21/07/2019 09:38

I wonder if the job agency would send their mum or sister for the job?

If this situation had ever been real, it would have been the mum or sisters decision what they decide to do for work or with their own body.

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