Women who refuse sex work may lose benefits (Germany)

[wigglybluelines]

Terrifying.

Are the public in Germany behind this? (Surely not?!)

A 25-year-old waitress who turned down a job providing "sexual services'' at a brothel in Berlin faces possible cuts to her unemployment benefit under laws introduced this year.

Prostitution was legalised in Germany just over two years ago and brothel owners – who must pay tax and employee health insurance – were granted access to official databases of jobseekers.

The waitress, an unemployed information technology professional, had said that she was willing to work in a bar at night and had worked in a cafe.

She received a letter from the job centre telling her that an employer was interested in her "profile'' and that she should ring them. Only on doing so did the woman, who has not been identified for legal reasons, realise that she was calling a brothel.

Under Germany's welfare reforms, any woman under 55 who has been out of work for more than a year can be forced to take an available job – including in the sex industry – or lose her unemployment benefit.

The government had considered making brothels an exception on moral grounds, but decided that it would be too difficult to distinguish them from bars. As a result, job centres must treat employers looking for a prostitute in the same way as those looking for a dental nurse.

More here:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/1482371/If-you-dont-take-a-job-as-a-prostitute-we-can-stop-your-benefits.html

Why are they called "sex workers" when the proper word is prostitutes?

Genuine question... is it meant to sound nicer?

'Sex work' is an umbrella term which includes all people who are selling sexual services in exchange for money, whether in person or not. Many prostitutes prefer the term sex worker because prostitute is very often used in a derogatory way. Personally I don't mind, but I use the term sex worker because it is what most prefer.

Decriminalisation allows sex workers to work together and it gives sex workers the same employment rights that most other people have, among other things

The Nordic Model allows sex workers to work together. Partial criminalization (UK model) allows prostitutes to work together. In fact most models allow prostitutes to work together.

I very much doubt in places where prostitution is legal they have the same "rights" as people in employment to adhere to health and safety laws regarding bodily fluids, coming into contact with spunk and saliva etc. They aren't provided with rubber gloves for starters.

Also from Snopes:
Then note how this same issue was covered by the German news source Deutsche Welle: A brothel owner in the historic German town of Gvrlitz on the Polish border is preparing to open his establishment next month but faces a one last serious problem — he has no staff. Ulrich Kueperkoch’s adverts seeking “hostesses for erotic services” for his Golden 3 Privatclub have been rejected by Germany’s Federal Labor Office even though prostitution is legal in the country. The dispute with the labor office stems from its refusal to allow advertising for prostitutes in the network of job-placement agencies that it runs. A spokesperson said that the labor office has “decided not to be active in that market sector” due to its belief that such work could infringe on an individual’s rights if he or she is forced to take the job. Kueperkoch insists he would only employ those who were interested and not those who felt they had no other choice.
Thank goodness.

I don't really buy into the idea of an umbrella term lumping pimps and prostitutes and cam girls all together in a term to describe things that are very different.
Prostitutes are prostitutes.
Cam girls are cam girls.
Pimps are pimps.
When would you ever need to talk about them all in exactly the same context?

Think about who benefits from use of the term "sex workers". Who's conscience is eased by pretending it's just a job like any other.

@BoglingToAswad of course it’s the choice of the woman - but would the agency worker consider for one second sending their mum for a job in a brothel?

Bollocks. Most ‘sex workers’ parrot the lines fed them by those that profit from their ‘work’.

You know absolutely fuck all about ‘sex work’.

I'm the only person who profits from my work, and I am more than capable of looking at independent research on sex work.

The Nordic Model allows sex workers to work together. Partial criminalization (UK model) allows prostitutes to work together. In fact most models allow prostitutes to work together.

I'm afraid that's not true. In the the UK a brothel is defined as a place where two or more sex workers work from (not necessarily on the same days), and sex workers in these conditions can be prosecuted on brothel keeping charges.

Recently in Ireland (under the Nordic model) two sex workers were imprisoned because they were working from the same premises. In fact around 60 sex workers have been convicted since the law changed.

If there is a version of the Nordic model which doesn't criminalise workers for working together please point it out.

When would you ever need to talk about them all in exactly the same context?

When saying it's not appropriate for the job centre to advertise sex work.

I don't really buy into the idea of an umbrella term lumping pimps and prostitutes and cam girls all together in a term to describe things that are very different*

It doesn't lump pimps and prostitutes together. Pimps are not sex workers.

I'm the only person who profits from my work, and I am more than capable of looking at independent research on sex work

Which makes you a minority, not the majority you claim to be speaking for.
This was my boss: www.standard.co.uk/news/is-it-all-over-for-mr-soho-6979938.html

I knew hundreds of girls working all over London (Stork, Chaplins, Browns, The Windmill, from ‘high class’ joints like Stringfellows to ‘pint pot’ places like the Old Axe) and almost all of them were trafficked or groomed into prostitution.

The only way to prevent women being exploited is via the Nordic model.

If you haven’t been pimped, you need to stop speaking over those that have been.

Wasn’t there a thread or comments on here recently about Snopes? I wouldn’t uncritically assume they call anything on sexist topics without bias.

”Kueperkoch insists he would only employ those who were interested and not those who felt they had no other choice.”

All very well, but does he really think that women who are desperate for money would necessarily be honest about whether they had a choice?

The umbrella term means even this doctor can claim to be a ‘sex worker’!

www.teenvogue.com/story/why-sex-work-is-real-work

Yet the likelihood of a doctor being held for hours against her will by a John seems pretty fucking small to me (routine job hazard for female prostitutes working ‘cases’ in hotels).

Pimps do describe themselves as sex workers / working in the sex industry

@DuMondeB I'm sorry for what you went through. I'm not trying to speak over anyone, however, I'm pointing out facts - the Nordic model doesn't work. Criminalising buyers leads to repressive policing which is bad for sex workers. Violence against sex workers rises and working conditions get worse under the Nordic model. I just don't see how that is helpful.

One of the main reasons I support full decrim is because it becomes easier for both sex workers and buyers to report abuse. Supporting decrim doesn't mean supporting prostitution.

An umbrella term for people who sell sexual services (including but not limited to prostitution, but not including people not selling sexual services such doctors!) is useful.

What word should we use if not sex work?

Yet the likelihood of a doctor being held for hours against her will by a John seems pretty fucking small to me (routine job hazard for female prostitutes working ‘cases’ in hotels).

Which is exactly why I want a model which takes violence against sex workers as seriously as against anyone else. Pushing the industry underground just makes these things more common. Only about 1% of crime against sex workers in Ireland which had been reported to a sex worker safety org is now reported to the police, under the new sex buyer law. It's a shitty state of affairs.

PID Pre implantation diagnostic

Thank you DpWm and CattleStreet.

I'm always a little torn on these issues, euthanasia falls into the same category for me, in that I absolutely see the benefit in certain limited circumstances but have been around long enough to appreciate the 'hold on a second' voices in a way I probably didn't when younger.

I can certainly understand German wariness given their history.

Pimps do describe themselves as sex workers

Well the next time you see that feel free to send them my way and I'll put them straight.

Actually, in this incident the German Church stepped in , if I remember correctly.

An umbrella term for people who sell sexual services (including but not limited to prostitution, but not including people not selling sexual services such doctors!) is useful
What word should we use if not sex work?

I can't think of any circumstances where I need an umbrella term to describe the sex "work"

The pimp lobby however is very keen on an umbrella word.

And they said this would never happen.

Loads of us have been saying that this would be the next step, steered between the twin pillars of "sex work is a job like any other", and the inability to refuse any job while you are on benefits.

Can any German speakers confirm that this is happening in German news, rather than a second-hand potential mistranslation?

And they said this would never happen

I've seen this story mentioned before. The consensus is it didn't happen.

Quite right. Beggars can't be precious.

Can any German speakers confirm that this is happening in German news, rather than a second-hand potential mistranslation?

I would very much doubt it, since the story in this article from 2005 didn't actually happen.

This is bollox, I am German and that's not a thing.