Why the sudden hostility to anti-vaxxers? (Not here, I mean in the culture at large...)

[Rocaille]

Sorry, this will be garbled: I'm thinking aloud. First of all, I'm not an anti-vaxxer. I don't think I've ever refused a vaccination, either for myself or DD. But in the last year or so, I've noticed a sudden ramping up of hostility towards people who choose not to vaccinate their children, not necessarily on Mumsnet, but certainly in the culture at large. Even the term 'anti-vaxxer' is a new coinage, I think.

I'm posting to find out, has anyone else noticed this, and if so, what do you make of it?

For me, it's reminiscent of the way that, some years back, the trans agenda appeared suddenly at the forefront of public discourse. In my tinfoil-hat-donning moments, I wonder who decides what issues we debate, when we debate them and to what end. Why now for anti-vax? I suppose there have been some serious measles epidemics in recent years, but that doesn't seem to account for the heat and urgency of debate, or the way anti-vaxxers are being characterised as a certain type of person.

Another thing that makes me associate pro-vax with the trans agenda is that it's potentially about the compulsory medical treatment of children, and removing the parent (mother) as the final arbiter of what can and cannot be done to her child's body. That's where I see pro-vax going.

Could this be another dimension of the same agenda, or have I completely lost the plot?

Because diseases we thought we had eradicated are now coming back and leaving people, mainly children, disabled or dead.

Because potentially fatal or life altering diseases like measles, which had almost been wiped out entirely, are now making a comeback, due to reduced herd immunity because of those who refuse to vaccinate their children.

It's not a last year thing round here- it's been at least a decade. But areas will vary I'm sure.

because they're putting themselves and other people at risk. Its no wonder that people are getting angry about it.

Yes, I've noticed it but it could just be that I have kids now whereas before I would have paid no attention.

I think there are always forces (for want of a better word) to wrest control from mothers. It's been worse in the past though? But yeah we should def stay vigilant.

Because parents are putting their children at risk (you would judge someone who smoked around their child/didn't use a car seat etc?) And it's not just their child they are putting at risk, it is more vulnerable members of society for whom these viruses could be fatal.

The term anti-vaxxer isn’t recent.

It’s been flung at me throughout my time on MN - my eldest is 15 now, and I arrived here when they were a baby, so a long tome ago.

The level of public vitriol waxes and wanes. As with everything, sometimes it is of higher prominence (like when there are measles outbreaks, yet not much mention of the almost permanent mumps outbreaks at universities over the last 10 years or more), sometimes other issues like disability or benefits issues take a higher place in the public awareness (usually not in a good way, so would be about so-called benefit scrounged/cheats, or PC gorn mad stuff wrt disability, or of course the holy grail for tabloids of a disabled benefit cheat!)

That's interesting, Namechange, are you in the US? (Hope you don't mind me asking).

Because the chickens are now coming home to roost. Anti vaxers got away with it because of herd immunity. Now that is being lost, the consequences of anti vaxing are becoming painfully clear with outbreaks of measles and other largely "forgotten" diseases.
And the largest groups of anti vaxers tend to be middle class, supposedly educated people who think they know better than the medical establishment and have seen through the "conspiracy".

Beacuse the published stats are becoming more and more stark.

Because this is about herd immunity, not just your kids.

Because they have no excuse. No evidence.

Opposition to anti-vaxxers has, quite rightly, been around for decades.

If it's making been the headlines recently that may be connected to the outbreaks of measles etc which have, entirely predictably and predicted, occurred in areas where uptake of vaccines has been relatively low.

What we are seeing is a lot of people saying 'I told you so'. Though they no doubt wish they didn't have to.

It's because we are angry that other people are happy to increase the risk to the general population

Honestly, on the Internet I think there is an element of bullying- I’ve seen mcuh gleeful ganging up on the thickie anti vaxxers. Now
I don’t agree with their viewpoint but if you genuinely were concerned about them you’d try to understand their concerns, not all this drops mic internet arguing

That's interesting, Namechange, are you in the US? (Hope you don't mind me asking).

I wish! No, South East UK but it is a big university city and they are big employers so I guess maybe more academics and more international than somewhere else?

Terminology may well be new though. I can't remember if "they" have always been anti-vaxxers or there was a more measured term used.

Because they are making people die. We need herd immunity. Personally I think it should be compulsory to vaccinate against all diseases for which we have vaccines. I do not 'understand ' their concerns. Antivaxxers spread lies and rumours and worry parents needlessly.

I understand the importance of herd immunity, my desire is that everybody should vaccinate their children. But I'm worried that the endgame of this debate will be compulsory medical treatment of children.

It concerns me that the state (legislators/health bodies) could have that kind of overreach. What's happening currently with the reckless 'treatment' (mutilation) of distressed dysphoric children shows that these authorities are not objective and can all too easily be hijecked by dangerous idiologies.

I believe that, in general, mothers are the best watchdogs for the care of their children.

I don’t agree with their viewpoint but if you genuinely were concerned about them you’d try to understand their concerns, not all this drops mic internet arguing

I'm not concerned about them. I'm concerned about the vulnerable people they are putting at risk with their selfishness and stupidity.

I'm In Australia and Anti vaxxers do as much bullying towards pro vaxxers.
One family who set up an awareness campaign after their baby boy died from whooping cough have been terribly harassed and bullied, doxxed and accused of lying about their sons death.
As someone who has been through chemo and could have died from catching some of these previously extinct diseases I have absolutely no time for people who think that doctors would knowingly expose their children to harm.
Disgusting

It's not new. I've followed FB groups like TAVS (things anti vaxxers say) for 4 or 5 years now. Or read up on Light for Riley, for example - a wee babe who died of whooping cough due to living in an area of anti vaxxers.
It's Alex Jones stuff. Conspiracy.
Vaccination is one of the medical wonders of our times.

South East UK. Same here!

It's not a new term, I had friends as a child whose parents were vocal antivaxxers, and I'm in my mid twenties. It does seem to be more common now though, places like Brighton are swarming with them.

Also there has been a strong anti-vax push against the HPV vaccine in certain areas in recent years, resulting in a massive drop off in uptake for the vaccine in girls here (in Ireland). This effectively obliterates any potential for herd immunity.
In terms of HPV anti-vaxxer it is felt be the people in the know that lies being spread will have a real and substantial risk to women's lives.

There is so much information available, both to read and to discuss with your doctor or nurse. That is why people get fed up and don't want to spend time repeating it all to people who, generally, are able to read, use a computer.
The NHS is strapped for cash, but one of the things that is prioritised is the vaccination programme because it saves lives.
In some countries children cannot attend school unless they have had their vaccinations.

because together with antimicobial resistance it is a serious public health concern.

the observation is not new but thanks to social media and loud anti-vaxxers who shout down anyone who disagree (much like tra shouting 'terf') it is becoming a real threat to public health globally.