Feminists only claim to care about lesbians in order to justify transphobia

[emerencesometimeshopeful]

Came across this article today. Posted by a friend (ex-friend maybe) who I know would identify with the author.

I fundamentally disagree that the brave new world gives more options than the old one. I'm not even convinced that the numbers of people identifying themselves for statistical purposes as lgbtq+ is useful given the myriad of ways one can identify and fall under stonewall's umbrella.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/lesbians-trans-women-gender-issues-erasure-lgbt-rights-a9005151.html

Note also that there is no UK law that recognises the status of any "transgender child".

The GRA 2004 applies only to those aged 18 years and older.

So, in UK law, it is a fair statement to make that there is no such person as a "transgender child". Such a person has no impact on any UK law.

Beyond that, the GRA 2004 and the Equality Act 2010 specifically restrict their application to "transsexuals" only.

There is no legal recognition in UK for "gender", "gender identity", "transgender". There is only legal recognition of [natural] sex and gender reassignment [as pertaining to transsexuals].

Oooh, how transphobic to suggest that someone is presenting as a man if they have a beard.

And a hashtag. Tres progressive. Devastatingly effective point.

Is it necessary to resort to personal insults/ ad hominem?

Fieldofgreycorn

What is the point you are trying to make in this thread, please?

fieldofgreycorn

For example. my point or purpose in any thread in which I contribute is to explain how the UK Trans Lobby has no knowledge or understanding of relevant UK law, given the misinformation and misrepresentation that is communicated by the organisations that constitute the UK Trans Lobby to all UK public institutions.

What is your purpose, please?

These posters. The very clear message being ‘Women, you don’t matter so suck it up & be nice.’

Yes, exactly.

This is why women are scared, we can see how this works. Entitled selfish males like Alex Drummond, who are in appearance and attitude are identical to all other entitled males, have caused this fear by creating an environment where we cannot tell a transwoman from a man and will be censured for trying to, even as part of a good-faith attempt to make protect women and girls

Great post, wacademia

That isn’t what the GRA or EQ act is about, it’s not taking it in the spirit intended.

I invite you to address this good faith complaint to Stonewall, Mermaids, Gendered Intelligence, LGBT Labour or any of the craven public sector organisations hanging on their every word and throwing women under the no 21 to Genderland.

Hello feildofgreycorn
I've posted about this before, I was followed to the ladies toilets not long ago, it was a single sexed space. I shouted and shouted until a bar man and security man came in.
If this was a unisexed area, what reason would I have had for calling the security man in?
I didn't like a man following me into the toilets but if it was a mixed space what could I say?
That he was creepy-he was, that he didn't do anything-he didn't get a chance to. Unisex, I shout they come in and what? He didn't do anything he has a right to be there...

Oooh, how transphobic to suggest that someone is presenting as a man if they have a beard.

And a hashtag. Tres progressive. Devastatingly effective point.

Is it necessary to resort to personal insults/ ad hominem?

Field, where is the ad hom or personal insult in my quoted post? It criticizes your lack of genuine engagement via a hashtag, and the inconsistencies in the sidetrack about toilets you have wandered down, particularly your assumption that a 'transwoman' wouldn't have a beard, which most of the delightful AWA transactivists would consider transphobia enough to throw you as far under the bus as you're happy to throw the lesbians who object to coercion.

What is your purpose, please?

JackyHolyoake this feels a bit like an interrogation. Are you asking me to explain or justify my being here?

wacademia I understand some of your points. I agree AD has no business in female spaces. I don’t want to normalise men in our spaces.

I also see the logic and consistency in your argument.. let one in, you let them all in. What you describe is somewhat of an extreme though.

Surely we can’t make rules or laws in a way that punishes the majority in lieu of lowest common denominator. I don’t think it is right to expect normal TW to use male toilets. I don’t think someone with a penis should be getting changed in changing room with people with vaginas. I don’t think that would be acceptable to majority society. It has to be proportionate response to each situation.

Just to be clear that wasn’t a NAMALT. I’m agreeing with the law and culture that yes we treat some born males as women, not men.

Floral L with the t was started by lesbians, you know the cunty type. That was my point.

Re. Ad hominem, you chose to mock my style of communication rather than engage with my point.

Linda Riley @lindariley8
Dyess is a a Transphobic sell-out who is continually throwing her Cis lesbian sisters under the bus in order to increase visibility for her Transphobic preachings. Block and ignore. #wrongsideofhistory #Dinosaur

Amy Dyess @ amydyess
Can I get a British solicitor to DM me so I can sue this person? It’s time to finally do it. Thanks!

Looks like things might get interesting

I don’t think it is right to expect normal TW to use male toilets.

Most TW keep their penises, so if by "normal" you mean post-SRS, you are mistaken. I think that toilets, where you have to expose your genitals to use them, are a legitimate facility to be segregated by genitalia. We can keep female toilets female-only without expecting transwomen to use the gents by insisting that all new public and commercial buildings must have unisex single-occupant toilets in additional to multi-occupant single-sex ones, and by insisting that any major renovations of existing buildings must add these (out of the men's loo space, not the women's, women need more loos per capita because of biology). We did this for disabled people, we are increasingly seeing organisations (including my employer) putting a Changing Places toilet in all new buildings, we can do this for trans people. Trans people must have access to safe toilets, but this must not come at women's expense.

Hashtags aren't arguments. Saying some lesbians are extremely invested, for some reason, in pretending that the lesbians who are dealing with cotton ceiling shit are not actually dealing with it isn't a point. It's just showing there's a group of dismissive women who resolutely disbelieve other women and prioritize men over them.

I don't feel there's a need to coddle that kind of deep internal misogyny by pretending it's an actual argument. Seriously. In what other women's rights issue would it be laudable for a group of women to respond to other women talking about their oppression by banding together with the oppressors and tell the first group of women they didn't believe them, and tough shit anyway?

There’s no indication of how representative that report is. Get the L out have made their anti trans views clear and have been disowned by most lesbians.

See, and that's TRA logic.

The cotton ceiling isn't a thing and the number of lesbians complaining is minuscule. But it's deffo transphobic for lesbians to exclude transwomen.

There’s no indication of how representative that report is

How many lesbians must be raped by transwomen for you to admit that some TW commit corrective rape and this is a problem?

For me, the number is "one".

Datun, so true.

"The cotton ceiling isn't a thing. BTW, saying you wouldn't even consider a male-bodied lesbian (clunky term used for forum rules only) is transphobic."

" What is your purpose, please?

JackyHolyoake this feels a bit like an interrogation. Are you asking me to explain or justify my being here? "

I am asking you what is the point you are trying to make? What is the purpose of your comments?

I've just been catching up with the thread and I'm wondering what your point is too, Fieldofgreycorn. It's not an interrogation to ask. It's because you're unclear.

My point is that many lesbians support transwomen, and don’t exclude them. Many/ most are not interested sexually in people with penises and most lesbians and TW think that is fine. Unisex toilets have their place but equally for many TW or transsexuals or however you want to refer to them they should be able and are able to use female toilets, where there is privacy.

I’m aware am in minority opinion here, and have made my point so will leave it there.

Women who sleep with transwomen are not lesbians.

If you want to eliminate sexual orientation as a concept, go right ahead. You won't find many supporters. Sexual orientation is based on sex, and is enshrined in law, based on sex.

Also stating that unisex toilets have their place, but men who identify as women should be able to access women's toilets means you are placing men, who identify as women, over women. Even when there is an alternative.

It's not remotely surprising, but it's difficult to justify, in my opinion. Dismissing unisex toilets means you see the validation of men identifying as women as more important than women. Which indicates to me that you absolutely see them as men, not women.

Correction, women whose sexual orientation includes transwomen ... are not lesbians.