Feminists only claim to care about lesbians in order to justify transphobia

[emerencesometimeshopeful]

Came across this article today. Posted by a friend (ex-friend maybe) who I know would identify with the author.

I fundamentally disagree that the brave new world gives more options than the old one. I'm not even convinced that the numbers of people identifying themselves for statistical purposes as lgbtq+ is useful given the myriad of ways one can identify and fall under stonewall's umbrella.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/lesbians-trans-women-gender-issues-erasure-lgbt-rights-a9005151.html

So straight feminist women should not show solidarity with lesbians?

But a butch lesbian diva can show solidarity with transwomen.

Slightly off topic but I see quite a lot of women on here are anti feminist when it comes to some basic things but are fully on board with anti-trans , anti- pornstitution.

What's pornstitution? And for the umpteenth time, gender critical feminists are not "anti-trans", we're fighting for the rights of women and girls. If so many prominent TRAs weren't also anti-woman activists there wouldn't be the conflict.

Feminists support prostituted women. Trying to make it look like a job like any other only works if women are also being trafficked into accountancy or teaching. Prostitution is very dangerous. No other work exposes the employee to body fluids or abuse. I've just been to the dentist. She's all gloved up, and her assistant is too. Saying prostitution is a job like any other just isn't true.

I'm not saying we don't have different opinions, I'm saying it looks as though right wingers are jumping on the coattails of feminist energy

Sorry, this first para should be bolded. I'm replying to sakura184.

sakura184
Slightly off topic but I see quite a lot of women on here are anti feminist when it comes to some basic things but are fully on board with anti-trans , anti- pornstitution.

Yeah? Which basic feminist things are women here not on board with?

sakura184
Slightly off topic but I see quite a lot of women on here are anti feminist when it comes to some basic things.

Examples please. And do you mean all of MN or FWR specifically?

Yeah? Which basic feminist things are women here not on board with?

NAMALT

Some feminists are right wing. That’s always been the case.

NAMALT

What does that mean? I know it stands for Not All Men Are Like That, but don't understand it in relation to 'women on MN not doing feminism properly'.

I suppose there would be other areas too, like the feminist theory that heterosexual marriage is prostitution. You don't hear much criticism of her marriage by women who do criticize porn and prostitution, where I see all of them as selling out.
Not judging,I've been in a heterosexual marriage myself, I know why women do it but when women who dont criticize marriage do criticize prostitution then that's not a feminist that's a right wing woman

Some feminists are right wing. That’s always been the case.

True. So I'm not talking about those women

I'm talking about women who uphold right wing values that happen to coincide with feminist values but actually aren't feminist at all

I'm not right wing, usually centre to left; but wouldn't have described myself as feminist exactly before all this came up. That was because I felt the best route towards equality for this society in this time was drawing less distinction between men and women instead of drawing attention to them as separate groups.

Woman wasn't and isn't a large part of my identity, it was just a biological description, relevant when biology is relevant.

The transgender issue has changed that. Firstly it has highlighted how rampant sexism still is. And secondly it is directly contradicting my biological understanding of the term woman. If I accepted genderist ideology that would mean accepting I am not a woman. And there is no longer a term for that useful biological grouping. It's plain absurd.

So I am now identifying as a feminist because now I see it's still needed.

As for supporting lesbians unfortunately my lesbian friends are completely stonewall - washed and don't want my support on this issue. I'm very into logic and fairness so the obvious unfairness of not allowing sexual orientation and female sport categories grates massively. But basically the whole philosophy is dead in the water for me at the point they can't define what a woman is any more.

That’s a very narrow group of people though. The vast majority of people are not right wing on everything, left wing on everything or feminist on everything.

like the feminist theory that heterosexual marriage is prostitution.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Third fiddle, I agree. I had no idea how many people believed in gender stereotypes until the trans issue came along.

@thirdfiddle

I see what you're saying. That the trans stuff is what makes you see a need for feminism, and is what draws you to feminism.
It happened similar to me but about 13 years ago or so.
But trans is just one aspect of feminism, there are other solid feminist theories and I'm just not sure we can cherry pick the bits of feminism we like and drop the bits we don't like, that don't align with , for example, our right wing values .

Like the person laughing at the feminist theory that marriage is prostitution.

Everyone has to drop some feminist theories because loads of them contradict each other, because there are many different feminist approaches.

I just think if women aren't prepared to criticize marriage as an institution then they should really STFU about prostitution because their right wing criticism doesn't help anyone, especially not the prostitutes

That’s ridiculous. There are plenty of married women who work directly with trafficked women, helping them exit prostitution.

*Everyone has to drop some feminist theories because loads of them contradict each other, because there are many different feminist approaches.

@Endofthedays
*
I agree. There's lots I don't, or even cant agree with, like the anti natalists. There's the nature/nurture debate ( I think it's nature so I'm an essentialist I guess), there's the lesbian/political lesbian issue. There's the notion of whether there's hope/no hope.
You can't agree with everything.

But when the "won't anyone think of the lesbians" brigade are NAMALTING me on my threads then we have a problem

*@Endofthedays
*
That’s ridiculous. There are plenty of married women who work directly with trafficked women, helping them exit prostitution.

That's great, and I hope those same women also understand feminist criticisms of marriage

Dworkin was both married and a prostitute at different stages in her life. She said it was just two different kinds of hell

I don’t know what ‘your’ threads are, so I can’t comment on that.

I do know that I have no time for ideological purity tests and the whole social justice approach of telling people what they must believe.

Wait, what? This is one reason I don't like labels. I had understood that marriage is prostitution is a pretty minority view within feminism. Just because someone is a feminist doesn't mean they need to align with every theory posited by every other person who identifies as feminist. Or if it does you can count me out again, I'll stick with being an ally on gender issues. Albeit a not at all right wing one.

I do know that I have no time for ideological purity tests and the whole social justice approach of telling people what they must believe.

It's hardly asking for ideological purity to tell women to stop namalting me. And it's infuriating when those women act like they're standing up for lesbians, while also believing het marriage is above criticism