Banned from women-only FB group

[maet]

A trans woman edited by MNHQ because OP is using second language posted in a women's only FB group wanting free emotional labour and "validation" from untrained women to help them with getting over their abusive ex boyfriend.

I stated it wasn't appropriate to ask untrained women to take on their emotional labour, especially considering what had happened to them was so traumatic (according to them they ended up in hospital), and especially not for free and suggested they seek professional help instead.

Cue trans woman and women stating I was being transphobic, and "wouldn't understand the fear a marginalised group would go through."

I was told I hadn't been through a traumatic experience before so couldn't possibly understand what the OP was going through.

I've been banned from a group specifically designed for women. Nowhere in the post did I mention anything about the OP being trans.

I am so sick of this shit. The world has gone mad.

And here we have Lass telling us you aren’t being goady

What was "goady" about bluebluezoo's initial question?

All she said was ^what is emotional labour?

In response she got

Emotional labour is a very well known and understood term in feminist theory, so posters on the FWR board doing the wide eyed not understanding shtick is really annoying

Don't come to FWR with smug ignorance and expect women to do your research and spoon feed you

LassOfFyvie
So your 10.40 post here laying out the response, is incorrect. You’ve just selected the response that suits you and can help you derail. The OP responded before that, and politely.

Let’s move on to the actual point of this thread.

A male came to a woman’s group for a specific purpose that helped those women, talked about their emotional problems with a partner and because the OP didn’t think they should do so, which they shouldn’t, they were removed from the group.

Time and time again women are being pushed out of spaces because they object to the inappropriate behaviour of males. That’s not ok.

I agree with you op. I don't get the angst over the term emotional labour. I've never heard of it before but it's pretty self explanatory. It is just inappropriate for a biological male to invade a female only tech space to vent about personal problems. There are loads of accessible online forums for that, mn being one of them.

I wouldn't go into the Litter Tray board and ask for advice on how to go about getting a divorce. I would rightly be directed to another board or asked to seek help outside of the forum in a more appropriate place

Ok, so to translate for some uneducated feminists, your o/p is saying a person came onto a women’s only tech forum, and started to ask for help on personal issues including their abusive ex. This person happening to be trans.

And you replied that a tech forum maybe wasn’t the best place and perhaps they should seek counselling/medical support?

Which seems perfectly reasonable, and I can’t see why they would ban you.

Unless like this thread things got derailed by terms such as “emotional labour” and the suggestion of “free” (does this forum provide paid assistance generally? I don’t get why money would come into it) and your post was misinterpreted.

If you’re banned though what is your recourse? Can you get reinstated, appeal?

I've never heard of it before but it's pretty self explanatory

Yes it is. It’s also subjective so will and can mean slightly different things to different people. Asking others to expend more energy in the way they communicate so as to avoid ‘turning you off feminism’ is another example, in my opinion. The OP made her point clearly the first time, but is being endlessly questioned about the choice of phrase and it’s meaning, despite already apologising and explaining English is not her first language.

Nitpicking words when most of us will understand the meaning, is an annoying derailment.

If you didn’t want to give ‘free emotional labour’ why did you waste your time replying to them? Just move on and ignore it?

My thoughts exactly.

The way Facebook groups work it is very easy to ignore posts that you don't want to engage with. Replies to any post are contained within that post so the tone of the group isn't affected.

Op, why not simply ignore this person's posts and only reply to the ones that were about tech start ups? Or start your own posts about things that were of interest to you?

I fail to understand why you had to comment on their posts and tell them that they were inappropriate. Presumably you commented more than once too. I doubt you made one comment and was immediately banned, unless that one comment was very offensive.

I fail to understand why you had to comment on their posts and tell them that they were inappropriate. Presumably you commented more than once too. I doubt you made one comment and was immediately banned, unless that one comment was very offensive.

And here we have another along to tell the OP she should have said nothing and behaved differently when a male invades a women’s space.

No she shouldn’t. Women can speak out and tell males to fuck off with their bullshit if we want to.

I think it's very obvious what this person was doing.

Of all the forums etc available, many generic so wouldnt flag up, just happened a single sex business based one was the go to? Nah...they knew exactly what they were doing. And then got pissed off when someone couldn't be sucked in....

Pesky women talking tech...how dare they

This person happening to be trans.

Male. In a women’s group.

@bluebluezoo I'm in Germany, and depending on your health insurance you'd pay a mental health professional to help you work through these things. This person wanted complete strangers to do this for them for free. You wouldn't get it for free from a professional. Given that most people knew what the term emotional labour was, it certainly wasn't us derailing the thread. I'm not sure why I have to keep repeating myself when my initial posts are clear and I've always been polite. I can't rejoin the group, as once you've been removed from a group of FB it appears you can no longer see the group.

Feels like there isn't much point debating this one. Seems like either you are sympathetic to trans people or you are not, and you can see very clearly in each poster's response which side they fall on.

@DecomposingComposers I could say the same thing about you responding here. I wanted to ensure the person knew it wasn't an appropriate place and direct them to a more appropriate place to find the help they needed.

@peardrops1 no one has asked you to debate anything, or even comment.

"I don't have an issue with trans people. I have an issue with women being silenced for sharing concerns and opinions."

But women on the forum had the choice to respond or ignore the person's post. By trying to shut them down are you not doing exactly what you claim to have a problem with? Do you really think they needed your help

maet you already explained on the first page. Don’t keep explaining, just ignore the derailers and focus on your central point.

You were right to speak out about this male invading your group. I was a group admin and members would help out by reporting irrelevant posts or taking the trolls to task. I don’t see any issue with what you did. In fact, well done to you for not succumbing to our social conditioning to ‘be nice’ to entitled rude males.

@DecomposingComposers also, this is a small group. Many of the same posters over and over. I enjoyed being a member of this group, and knew some people from it. Why would someone assume a group for women in tech start up's is an appropriate place to get untrained therapy?

Feels like there isn't much point debating this one. Seems like either you are sympathetic to trans people or you are not, and you can see very clearly in each poster's response which side they fall on.

Do you not see how silly this sounds? So trans people should be able to behave any way they want and at any time they want, no matter how inappropriate it is, or else people like you say they’re not ‘sympathetic’. That is unhinged. There’s not a special bubble around trans people that males them beyond criticism nor does it absolve them of all the usual social expectations of consideration and respect for others. What a nerve thinking you can go round behaving however you like just because of some identity you’ve claimed. What rot.

Op, why not simply ignore this person's posts and only reply to the ones that were about tech start ups? Or start your own posts about things that were of interest to you

Oh come off it. They shouldn't have been there , they knew they shouldnt have been there and would have accused them of being transphobic for ignoring them as well. Their whole identity is victimhood.

@Catapultaway I'm not giving them help, I'm suggesting a more appropriate place to seek help. And I wasn't the only person confused as to why this person was posting. Not sure if others were banned - I only made one post and was then called transphobic and swiftly banned. I'm assuming other women were removed too. But these days you can say "transphobic" and people panic and will automatically side with the person accusing someone else of transphobia, despite me never mentioning the OP being trans. Anyway, you can read the thread properly and hopefully you'll understand my point a little better, and I can only apologise again if my English is a little off, it's not my first language.

But women on the forum had the choice to respond or ignore the person's post. By trying to shut them down are you not doing exactly what you claim to have a problem with? Do you really think they needed your help

This makes no sense. Whatsoever.
What the OP had a problem with, was a male in a women’s space dedicated to a specific subject, entering it to talk about something different. They absolutely should be shut down in that space as it’s not appropriate. Women are allowed to speak out against this kind of entitlement, and they’re not mean or unkind, but prioritising women in a women’s space.

peardrops

It would not have been appropriate even if they had been a woman. The fact they weren't and it was a woman's group is just one of the reasons it was not appropriate.

Nothing to do with being sympathetic tkbtrans people or not. I am very sympathetic to those with gender dysphoria who can not feel comfortable with their bodies, people who want to quietly get on with their lives as best they can. I have zero sympathy for a man or anyone else invading a women's group in a completely inappropriate way.

And I will mention - AGAIN - the post was very graphic without warning. As someone who was in a physically, emotionally and sexually abusive relationship, it was upsetting to read. If I wanted to read about these things, I'd be in a support group for people relating to these things. This was for women in tech start ups. There was no reason for this person to post there about this specific thing. If they asked for help or advice re: tech start ups, if I had an answer I'd have happily given it.

"This makes no sense. Whatsoever.
What the OP had a problem with, was a male in a women’s space dedicated to a specific subject, entering it to talk about something different. They absolutely should be shut down in that space as it’s not appropriate. Women are allowed to speak out against this kind of entitlement, and they’re not mean or unkind, but prioritising women in a women’s space."

I thought she said it had nothing to do with them being trans?

Women are indeed allowed to speak out, sounds like the admins did.

Given you weren't a group admin it doesn't seem like it was your place to police who was allowed to post and what they could post about.

If the group members wanted to give their "emotional labour" for free then that's their choice to make. Lots of posters here on MN choose to do so everyday. Your post comes across as fairly patronising.

If I was the OP in this situation I would be sympathetic to anyone on that forum, woman or not, who had a small tech start up question. Any other questions should quite rightly redirected to the professional source for help.

The fact that the OP suggested this and was swiftly banned was on the basis that the poster was trans, it was on that basis alone. If that person was a woman and the OP did the same would the OP have been banned for the group? No.

Professionals are there for a reason, untrained 'help' is not helpful to a person who needs professional help. The help on that forum related to small tech start ups only.