Banned from women-only FB group

[maet]

A trans woman edited by MNHQ because OP is using second language posted in a women's only FB group wanting free emotional labour and "validation" from untrained women to help them with getting over their abusive ex boyfriend.

I stated it wasn't appropriate to ask untrained women to take on their emotional labour, especially considering what had happened to them was so traumatic (according to them they ended up in hospital), and especially not for free and suggested they seek professional help instead.

Cue trans woman and women stating I was being transphobic, and "wouldn't understand the fear a marginalised group would go through."

I was told I hadn't been through a traumatic experience before so couldn't possibly understand what the OP was going through.

I've been banned from a group specifically designed for women. Nowhere in the post did I mention anything about the OP being trans.

I am so sick of this shit. The world has gone mad.

Why were you so unkind to them? I am bemused by your post.

Asking the question "what is emotional labour" to a feminist on a feminist board, talking about harm that has been done to her because a male inveigled his way into a group of women and got her kicked out is a textbook case of a demand for emotional labour. Doesn't she have enough to think about without having to explain something that is fairly obvious or googleable, to the nth degree?

When I became a feminist, I educated myself, I didn't expect others to do it for me. I think there is an expectation with feminists (because we're women) that as well as fighting the patriarchy we will also run around spoon-feeding people who could just as easily google their questions as ask them here. It's not even hard to work out what emotional labour is in this instance - tending to a male's emotions and supposed trauma, especially in a context where emotions are not being shared by women themselves, is work for women. Hard work. We're the oppressed ones, not the male, yet we're supposed to be their support.

OP, this is the way of things at the moment - male feelings come first, over female needs. In your case the need for a professional space to share experiences and knowledge with other women.

It's also not unknown for MTF trans to steal women's experiences and try to pass them off as their own, especially experiences of trauma at the hands of men. That might be what is going on here too. I'm sorry the other women in the group weren't able to see what this person was up to.

Try RTFT pear.

@peardrops1 how is telling someone to find an appropriate mental health professional to help them work through their issues in any way negative? Please read the entire thread. Why are a bunch of strangers supposed to do the therapy for a stranger in an inappropriate forum?

Cheers DoYouMind, I have RTFT. The FB group seems entirely irrelevant; all the OP actually wants is to vent about trans people.

@Erythronium you've said it better than I could. Thanks.

how is telling someone to find an appropriate mental health professional to help them work through their issues in any way negative? Please read the entire thread. Why are a bunch of strangers supposed to do the therapy for a stranger in an inappropriate forum?

But if this is actually your point, OP, why focus on the fact that this person is trans?

@peardrops1 I have mentioned many times that I never once mentioned the person being trans. Because I told them it wasn't an appropriate place and to seek more appropriate help, I was accused of transphobia by this trans person. I was then removed from a group I've been a member of for around 2 years. So again, read the full thread and then comment, or don't comment at all.

bluebluezoo asked

What is “emotional labour”?

That isn't goady

The response was

Emotional labour is a very well known and understood term in feminist theory, so posters on the FWR board doing the wide eyed not understanding shtick is really annoying

Now that is goady.

The next response to macropoint was

Don't come to FWR with smug ignorance and expect women to do your research and spoon feed you

That is rude, aggressive and arrogant. I understand this proprietorial attitude of some posters that unless one has a working knowledge of feminist buzz word theories posters should not be here.

As for "not understanding it" - the women who coined the phrase has given an interview pointing out it is being used incorrectly.

So the OPs group ( support for women in tech ) was derailed by a XY person demanding that group members discuss their relationship issues instead.

And the OPs thread ( support for her) has been derailed by a poster demanding that that group members educate them about feminism instead.

@LassOfFyvie none of those were my responses. If you can navigate MN you can navigate Google. Many women have given appropriate definitions of emotional labour on here.

If you didn’t want to give ‘free emotional labour’ why did you waste your time replying to them? Just move on and ignore it?

Why would you decide instead to comment negatively to an abuse victim? Who’s probably just going through a shit time? And make a point about their trans status?

Maybe an abuse victim can’t join a Facebook group for abuse victims and ask there because some men are fucking crazy and would notice you’d joined a group like that and beat the shit out of you?

I can’t imagine any situation where I’d feel the need to try and criticise someone asking for advise about an abusive situation, ever.

OK OP, but you were apparently banned from this group for being transphobic. Your comments on this thread suggest you are pretty transphobic (e.g. your opening phrase 'A trans woman edited by MNHQ because OP is using second language...'). So...

maet You are right. I've been hospitalised for trauma, I wouldn't demand you counsel me. It wouldn't be appropriate for you to counsel me even if you were trained, as you don't have access to my medical records.
The best you could do is offer emotional support - but not on a tech forum. Its just not appropriate. If you are ill or harmed you have to take responsibility for working your way towards wellness. That means you ask appropriate people, in the appropriate way, at an appropriate time.

If you can't do that for yourself then you need to be guided towards appropriate help.

If you didn’t want to give ‘free emotional labour’ why did you waste your time replying to them? Just move on and ignore it?

Why would you decide instead to comment negatively to an abuse victim? Who’s probably just going through a shit time? And make a point about their trans status?

Maybe an abuse victim can’t join a Facebook group for abuse victims and ask there because some men are fucking crazy and would notice you’d joined a group like that and beat the shit out of you?

I can’t imagine any situation where I’d feel the need to try and criticise someone asking for advise about an abusive situation, ever.

@Earlywalker I wanted to ensure this person went to an appropriate professional for help.
I never made reference to them being trans, they called me transphobic simply because I didn't dawn over them and told them there are much more appropriate places to seek help. They weren't asking for advice, they were asking to meet women in the group to validate their experiences and listen to and provide untrained help through their "trauma". That's not fair to the OP or the women in the group.

The point people are spectacularly (purposely) missing here is that this wasn't an appropriate space for anyone to bring their personal issues. It's extremely unlikely that a female would have brought these issues into the group. This was a business group for professional women. Would you turn up to a conference and workshop based around women in tech and then try to turn the conversation around to your abusive relationship? No.

What's emotional labour?

I think you will find that women DO want to engage actually , this is one of the most popular boards on MN

I have seen many a post on other boards where women are scared of FWR. It has a reputation.

Generally, yes, women do want to engage. That’s why i am here. But if you come over here, read a thread, see a term you don’t understand, ask a question and get told abruptly you’re an adult, go google it, and no one is doing your work for you, then yes, i can see why a newbie or someone who already has a certain perception of feminists might withdraw thinking what’s the point.

you know nothing, come on a board to learn and people won’t engage with your question. It’s two way. You can’t engage with someone who won’t.

Like i said, there is no obligation for any poster to help, engage or do anyone else’s “labour”. But a simple “it’s a well known term if you want to find out more” would have done the job without the rudeness.

I had no idea it was even a term.

I’ve read the wikipedia page now and tbh at first glance it sounds like a load of complicated pseudointelllectual wankspeak. Not exactly inspiring for more research. Further to my previous post, the internet isn’t always a reliable source.

@peardrops1 a trans woman is a man. I'm not a native English speaker and didn't want to cause any confusion. This person called me transphobic simply because I didn't say what they wanted me to say. This seems to be happening to women a lot these days. I'm gender critical, not transphobic. I don't have an issue with trans people. I have an issue with women being silenced for sharing concerns and opinions.

LassOfFyvienone of those were my responses.

I didn't say they were .

You said to bluebluezoo

it's best to not ask in a goady manner, which is what you have done to many posters

What on earth was "goady" about bluebluezoo asking "what is emotional labour"?

It has a reputation does it Blue? And here we have Lass telling us you aren’t being goady.

You’d think you’d want to encourage other to take up feminism not be so rude they think it’s full of aggressive militants who will belittle them if they ask a question.

Again women are being told we must do certain things and behave in certain ways so as not to let feminism down, to make it attractive for others. It’s interesting the OP’s point is being made over and over again in this very thread.

*Heratnumber7

What's emotional labour?

Ohh look, another goady poster.

@Doyoumind yes, I think most of the posters are bored and desperate for a fight. Sorry I won't rise to it.
I've said my piece. I'm not here to educate people, and I'm not going to support complete strangers who search for women to help them with issues beyond their abilities and then call others names for suggesting they find a proper mental health professional.
I see many people suggest seeing GPs, therapists etc., and are never called mean.
I wouldn't go into the Litter Tray board and ask for advice on how to go about getting a divorce. I would rightly be directed to another board or asked to seek help outside of the forum in a more appropriate place.

peardrops1

It’s not transphobic to say males or men, regardless of personal gender identity, do not belong in a women’s tech start up group. Particularly made worse by the fact they were unloading about their boyfriend and expecting a bunch of women gathered for business reasons to support them.

This isn’t difficult. The transwoman shouldn’t have been in the group and certainly shouldn’t be there with that post. End of.

Also, Lass the OP’s first response to the questions, inc Blue’s, re emotional labour, was:

Apologies - German is my native language. I suppose by "emotional labour", the OP in this group is asking for women to work through his - yes, his - issues, without seeking professional help instead. Obviously feeling women had some kind of duty to help him simply because he was trans and we are women. Anyone who questioned why he was posting was shot down, called TERFs and I was banned - not sure about the others.

Once that’s been explained, not sure why everyone keeps banging on about the phrase. It’s explained what was meant, politely, and a lot more politely than the initial responses to this OP.