Oh come off it OP.
This thread kept me awake last night as I read during a bout of insomnia
You have thoughtful and considered posters (especially @redbrush who is one of the most sensible MNetters there is out there) challenging your POV (which incidentally changed number of times during the discussion depending on which corner you painted yourself into as the discussion progressed)
That article you started the discussion with had red flags of serious bias all over it including one with the highly emotive one of marrying anti-vaccine sentiment (correlates highly with refusal of vit k injections) with anti-abortion one for starters and it was presented as this is why you personally opt for home births. It was sensible to call that out.
Secondly, the posters simply pointed out that there is more to that story that meets the eye and that various other factors were at play. I appreciated posts by @GeorgeFayne which shed light on these factors and added the much needed nuance. Not excusing anything, just providing context.
FWIW, I had a home birth - first baby at 40 but in no way do I think that it is for everyone or that medicine or indeed men in medicine need to be banned completely on the basis that their presence is inherently mysoginistic as you seem to dogmatically state throughout the thread. My child was delivered beautifully by a child-free midwife by the way.
Incidentally @RedToothBrush - absolutely agree re elective CS and mental health. I was extremely birth anxious and requested elective. It was combo of my anxiety and trauma from a very painful natural miscarriage 2 years prior. It was thanks to my dedicated MWs with whom I had continuity of care (which is considered to be the gold standard care option that us meant to be rolled out as standard maternity care ) that this anxiety was unpicked and addressed so that I ended up at wanting vaginal birth myself. There were issues with the after care where my all female MW team minimised and dismissed my concerns and DD ended up in NICU but that’s a separate topic in itself.
Also, someone mentioned Poland as a country with very low maternal mortality.
I happen to be of Polish heritage and I have some idea about how the system works there with one of the best outcomes for maternal mortality in the world.
Birth in Poland is medicalised too. The rate of CS is high, higher than in UK and US. Anecdotally I can say the following:
Pregnant woman will see a gyno every 4 weeks and then every 2 weeks where typically bloods will be taken and additional scans will be conducted which catches potential issues quicker.
It is not unusual for women to be signed off work at full pay 6 months in on the basis of tiredness or any other pregnancy issue. It is also not uncommon for women to be sent to hospital to lie flat on their back if there is an issue with pregnancy like shortened cervix for example. It is NOT so in the UK where often after the 20 week scan, unless you have adverse symptoms or a preexisting condition, you will be only seeing a midwife every few weeks until the day you are giving birth.
The whole societal attitude in Poland is quite paternalistic in a sense that is that pregnant woman must take it easy. I lost the count of number of times where I was told not to carry anything heavy (we are talking shopping bag) and be careful on the stairs, even by strangers.
Elective csection is seen as a completely sensible first option and if you are having issues with accessing it, you can easily go private and it’s usually covered by your work insurance. The price, if it’s not covered is not prohibitive and people are prepared to pay.
The rate of c sections is higher than in the US and higher than in the UK. I cannot find data on elective v EMCS but instinctively I’d say it’s driven by elective based on very unscientific fact that of people I know personally, out of 6 mothers three had c sections and all were elective. My homebirth caused an enormous consternation among the Polish side of my family.
Conclusions from the above? In a medicalised/paternalistic setting the outcomes for mothers can be better than in more demedicalised settings. And interestingly, Poland has incredibly restrictive abortion laws and the populist government is as anti feminist as it gets yet they seem get maternal care right looking at stats. Why? God knows without looking into it in great detail and considering correlation and causality and all possible factors. Which is why banging on about banning men in maternity care and demonising medical approach to birth is IMHO simplistic and myopic.