My daughter was assaulted tonight - why I'm against self ID

[JudgeFlounceRedRugBlah]

Been around since it was all fields etc. but name changed as this concerns my children.

So, one of my children is transgender. My child is wonderful, kind and strong. I've struggled with the transgender debate because of this. They have no obvious signs of wanting to pervert womanhood just to emulate it. Imho as transgenderism should be.

I've also got daughters and, as a women, am well aware of how vulnerable a girl or woman can be when singled out and this has been borne out today. My (underage) daughter was working at her first workplace taking orders at tables in a restaurant. The staff have known her since she was born. They care for and look out for her - thank goodness. Tonight a man followed her to the toilets, pinned her and told her "he knew he shouldn't but he couldn't help himself.." sadly too many women know how this goes.

Luckily another person in the restaurant noticed a man go into the womens toilet and that neither of them came out in a reasonable amount of time. Instead of being scared that the man was a woman and they'd be in trouble with the police for hate crimes they alerted staff who got to my daughter before much more than clammy mauling had happened.

I'm angry at the sleaze who did this to my CHILD. But more I'm scared that we are fast approaching a world where that person could have felt uncomfortable raising their concerns. Perhaps they'd have hesitated just a bit longer, a bit too long. Perhaps the staff would have had a training course about jelly babies.

As it is they did say something, staff did react and my daughter is shocked, a bit scared but mostly disgusted. I can't tell you how thankful I am that she lives in a world where people are, currently, free to say "erm... that doesn't seem right".

My transgender child is going through hell in so many ways, they are battling on a frontier - I can see that - but, much as I support them, I am not prepared to sell my daughters out for it.

I'm aware I may get some backlash from posting this so I apologise now if I have to ask hq to remove. I really just wanted to say thank you to those who are not against trans people but also recognise that not against doesn't mean they have to drink the kool aid. Those who are fighting so hard just to have a proper discussion about it all. Thank you

Your poor daughter. So glad she was helped - hope that 'man' gets arrested. Vile creature.

I do not dislike transgender people no more than I dislike men or women. Only the entitled and or blissfully ignorant kind wins me up.

It sounds like your trans child is self aware and is doing what they feel comfortable with, without being 'look at me'.

I hope both your saughyer and your trans child have the least amount of difficulties as possible.

Thanks for posting. I hope the police were called over the attack and your daughter recovers, must have been terrifying for her and shocking for you and your family.

As I say regularly, it's not about trans people. It is about men.

Thank goodness that person alerted the staff... to you and your daughter.

Thank you both. Yes police called and dealing with it (after a difficult conversation along the lines of "well... we probably won't be able to make anything stick, are you sure you want us to talk to him... but that's a different thread )

I think you'll find that the great majority of regular posters on this board are pro the rights of women and girls rather than anti transgender people.

I agree that your daughter's safety, privacy and dignity are more important than the gender expression of your other child.

I have major problems with trans ideology but I wouldn't be rude to a transgender person. It's not about the individual. And I support human rights for all. I just don't think men who identify as women should be entitled to invade our single sex spaces. That would give them extra rights and reduce ours.

First of all, for your daughter - so sorry she was put through that by that vile man.

I agree with you totally. The problem is two fold - self ID, and the conflation of sex and gender. I want people like your trans child to live life free from harrassment, able to dress and "present" as they feel they need to to lead a happy, psychologically comfortable life. But that has to be accompanied by some form of gate keeping to weed out the piss takers, and also by an understanding that gender reassignment is a legal fiction, not a statement of ontological truth, and that there are circumstances (prisons, hospital and psych wards, women's refuges, women's sports) where sex trumps gender reassignment.

Thank heavens for the onlooker prepared to intervene. And you have my respect for remaining so clear headed and insightful under such stressful circumstances.

How awful. Thank goodness people were alert. I hope your daughter recovers well, with support.

Your poor child. So glad staff intervened quickly.

Trans young people are generally, ime, sensitive, intelligent, questioning people who have often been through some awful shit. They deserve and have my personal empathy and support.

But my daughters have my fierce, unquestioning loyalty, and I still don't want them ever alone in a changing room or toilet with a male.

So sorry this happened. As others have said its about preditary men having easier access under self ID not about anti trans

to you and your daughter. I'm so glad someone stepped in to intervene.

Your post reminds me of Haxxor's posts about swiss-cheese theory in risk management -- the way we layer different types of protection atop one another to cover each layer's vulnerability. She specifically talked about toilets, and how one layer of protection were the bystanders who'd stop a man going into a women's toilet, and how we lose that layer if seeing men enter women's toilets becomes normalised.

Thank goodness that layer was still there for your daughter.

Any public facility that removes that layer with mixed-sex loos is DECREASING security. I can't understand why that's so difficult for people to see.

I'm so sorry, I hope your daughter is ok.

I have name changed, I want to say I am 100% in agreement with everything you say.

I have a a transgender daughter also and I'm often conflicted between what I think she should be able to do and how I need her sisters to be protected.

your poor daughter
was it school work experience? is it worth mentioning to school?

That's horrible! Glad they intervened in time.

judge

for both of you

It's terrible that happened JudgeFlounce. You sound like a good mother. I hope it's figured out how to make sure trans people have the protections they need while women retain theirs.

I hope your daughter feels safe now.

Regardless of the needs and wants of transpeople, women and girls need sex segregation for their own safety and dignity.

@riverday it's a difficult road to parent isn't it? I hope you are doing ok, its not like there's a wealth of places where cautious parents of transgender children can get support.

I agree, it's about the loss of another of those layers of protection that are, sadly, still needed for women and girls. I so wish we'd arrived at a point in time where predatory men didn't exist so that it would be easy to give transgender people access without fear - but we haven't, in fact some days we seem to be getting further and further away from that. Oddly it shocked me to hear my daughter repeat a variation of the words so many of us (and our own mothers/aunts/friends) have heard. It's like nothing has changed at all.

@newtlover, not work experience but school are aware. It's just an hour or so after school occasionally for pocket money really.

So sorry this happened, your poor girl, was there CCTV - bloody police a young girl was attacked! Dear lord the world we live in.

Just sending support to you and your family OP on all fronts.

Definitely complain about that police response. Not on.

Oh my goodness, your poor daughter. I hope she is OK.

You're right, this is a huge piece of protection being removed for women and girls if men and boys can just self-ID into female spaces.

Awful that the police reacted like that, when there was even another witness. Terrible.

And the frightening thing is this is happening increasingly without self ID even being in place. What an appalling thing to happen and good of work protecting her. Bottom line however is his behaviour was grossly indecent, in a private space where girls are vulnerable regardless of gender/sex whathaveyou so don't let it lie.

Slightly curious what your trans kid does about toilets bit maybe not the time to ask.

Slightly curious what your trans kid does about toilets bit maybe not the time to ask.

Mine uses the disabled. She has always used the disabled because she is autistic and had issues around toileting for years. I have no idea what the solution would have been otherwise. School have a specific single toilet, I don't know how it's labelled exactly but it is beside the disabled rather then being a disabled itself.

I'm so sorry you daughter had to go through that OP, and thank god for the people there being on the ball and intervening.

Your post pinpoints exactly why women's spaces should be strictly women and girls only. I have a daughter too, and this terrifies me. The one thing I could rely on growing up was that that the women's toilets were a safe space (almost guaranteed).

for your daughter.