My daughter was assaulted tonight - why I'm against self ID

[JudgeFlounceRedRugBlah]

Been around since it was all fields etc. but name changed as this concerns my children.

So, one of my children is transgender. My child is wonderful, kind and strong. I've struggled with the transgender debate because of this. They have no obvious signs of wanting to pervert womanhood just to emulate it. Imho as transgenderism should be.

I've also got daughters and, as a women, am well aware of how vulnerable a girl or woman can be when singled out and this has been borne out today. My (underage) daughter was working at her first workplace taking orders at tables in a restaurant. The staff have known her since she was born. They care for and look out for her - thank goodness. Tonight a man followed her to the toilets, pinned her and told her "he knew he shouldn't but he couldn't help himself.." sadly too many women know how this goes.

Luckily another person in the restaurant noticed a man go into the womens toilet and that neither of them came out in a reasonable amount of time. Instead of being scared that the man was a woman and they'd be in trouble with the police for hate crimes they alerted staff who got to my daughter before much more than clammy mauling had happened.

I'm angry at the sleaze who did this to my CHILD. But more I'm scared that we are fast approaching a world where that person could have felt uncomfortable raising their concerns. Perhaps they'd have hesitated just a bit longer, a bit too long. Perhaps the staff would have had a training course about jelly babies.

As it is they did say something, staff did react and my daughter is shocked, a bit scared but mostly disgusted. I can't tell you how thankful I am that she lives in a world where people are, currently, free to say "erm... that doesn't seem right".

My transgender child is going through hell in so many ways, they are battling on a frontier - I can see that - but, much as I support them, I am not prepared to sell my daughters out for it.

I'm aware I may get some backlash from posting this so I apologise now if I have to ask hq to remove. I really just wanted to say thank you to those who are not against trans people but also recognise that not against doesn't mean they have to drink the kool aid. Those who are fighting so hard just to have a proper discussion about it all. Thank you

Satterthwaite I've not said it's the job of women. Imo it's the job of people to ensure people are safe. Yes that includes women but not only women. Talking about it here is because this is where hq tend to want to keep threads and also because this is the place where people are the most informed.

Trans feelings don't trump womens feelings. Everyone matters not women, not men, not trans. People.

I have answered a lot of questions here and heard a lot in response. My question in return is this;

How would you handle a child coming to the conclusion they are transgender, I mean an older child who has done their own research etc and who you do not want to ostracize. What would your solution be to this part of it all?

How would you handle a child coming to the conclusion they are transgender, I mean an older child who has done their own research etc and who you do not want to ostracize. What would your solution be to this part of it all?

It's hard for me to answer, because I feel I've innoculated my children by giving them knowledge about sex and gender for years, biology vs stereotypes. I encourage critical thinking. They already know they can't change from boy to girl or from female to male.

But hypothetically, if my child was to declare themselves transgender, I would not indulge any aspect of their belief, or accommodate any level of delusional thinking.

The most important thing is for love to have strength. Popularity isn't love.
I need to be strong enough to withstand my children hating me for saying No.
My children know how much I love them.
They're accustomed to hearing me say no, repetitively and without wavering when their safety or wellbeing is at risk.

As we say here a lot, wear what you want, love who you want, live your life but you can't change sex, and you must learn to respect other people's sex and their boundaries.

I don't believe anyone is transgender in the same way I don't believe anyone is reincarnated. I think we're reifying a mythical concept by talking about it as if it's actually real. There's a great deal of harm caused by not being able to call it what it is.
Harm to others, but honestly, harm to those who believe themselves to be transgender too.
I don't think we help them by giving any credibility to the label.
The truth gets buried and it's harder for them to get to grips with.

JudgeFlounceRedRugBlah

How would you handle a child coming to the conclusion they are transgender, I mean an older child who has done their own research etc and who you do not want to ostracize. What would your solution be to this part of it all?

Judge, why do you think your child is transgender?

How would you handle a child coming to the conclusion they are transgender, I mean an older child who has done their own research etc and who you do not want to ostracize. What would your solution be to this part of it all?

I've just spent the weekend with one of my nieces. She has severe bulimia and has spent weeks in a special unit. At one point she and her parents were warned she might die.

Neither I or any other member of my extended family endorse her false feelings about her body.

I can't see declaring yourself to be the opposite sex as any different.

Datun, I've already addressed that up thread.

Barracker, see I would say the same thing. I've never subscribed to gender and my children's upbringing has been (for want of a better word) agender in so far as clothes, hair, toys etc have not subscribed to "norms". I have always made it clear that women do x and men do y is not something that flys in our home. The child who now thinks they are transgender was probably the one who responded most passionately to that and clearly didn't confirm to gender stereotypes in or out of the home. I was part of the times when the revolt against gendered toy shops was happening and so on so was always very aware of how the messages start from birth and pervade every part of a child's life. I feel I did a lot to counteract those messages and address them where I could. My older children are very much of the same opinions now and quite fierce in their beliefs that gender is foisted on us often as a means of control. One of my biggest soap boxes over the years has been critical thinking. As a society children are no longer taught to question which makes me despair. I've always encouraged my children to ask why, to look for the evidence to not blindly accept.

Prawn, I take your point but how does that work in a practical sense? I've gone down the route of watch and wait, engage with councillors, talk, experiment and don't make life altering decisions until they are the only decision it is possible to make. Part of the battle is that councillors are so often affirming with transgender people. You say therefore you are. I assume your niece is having that sort of support, what would or could her parents do if that support was only interested in affirming her self image even to the point that a parent could be in trouble if they didn't also buy into it?

My brother was always indulged into being able to live in a fantasy land. I think it was dreadfully unhelpful to his well being.

I do think this is an important facet.

You can not 'be whatever you want to be'. It's nonsense.

As for 'an older child who has done their research', where is the research coming from? Are they living in an echo chamber or getting information from a variety of sources including ones which challenge your preconceptions? You can not make an informed decision by only listening to things from a positive affirmation point of view and within an echo chamber due to the social pressures of that echo chamber.

It doesn't matter what the subject is. It's true if everything, and stressing this rather than a head on tackling of the trans issue itself has to ultimately be the way forward.

Building up a good understanding of propaganda, media manipulation, stereotypes and agendas which might not be in your interests before kids go anywhere near the Internet which is full of little else.

If kids can't understand those concepts and ideas they a) shouldn't be on the Internet b) lack the capacity to make a properly informed decision because they haven't 'done their research properly' because they don't know how to.

If they are over 18, then honestly they need to step up and take responsibility for themselves and not expect for their mothers to exist only to validate them or bail them out.

Your children aren't there to validate your own existence either and I think there are definitely elements of that going on when you look at the dynamics of a least some parent / child relationships where trans issues are present. cough naming no high profile names cough

Datun, I've already addressed that up thread.

Do you mean you've addressed it by saying you won't discuss it in detail? Or you've addressed it by answering why are you think they're transgender?

Because all I can see is that you think they're gay.

Which would indicate they have internalised homophobia.

The reason I'm asking, is because if you can ascertain the reasons, you can begin to address them, and help deconstruct the process.

It seems that your dilemma is the fact that you don't really believe in transgenderism and now one of your children is trans, you don't want to lose them by maintaining that there is no such thing.

Or words to that effect.

So one solution would be to work on the reasons why they think that.

Redtoothbrush, where did I say they could be what they wanted to be? Where have I said anything that would suggest I didn't speak to them about these things? My last post certainly seems to suggest that I did exactly that?

Datun, I said that I personally don't think they are transgender instead are gay but wishing to be seen as heterosexual however that they believe they are transgender so that is what we have to work with. We have indeed been working on the reasons why they think that. Like everyone else though there is little ability to articulate the reality of it for them. Add to that the world falling over itself to affirm every step someone takes and a GC parent is left as a bit of a lone voice out here in the real, day to day world.

Add to that the world falling over itself to affirm every step someone takes and a GC parent is left as a bit of a lone voice out here in the real, day to day world.

Well, quite.

And my initial thoughts appear to be backed up by the fact that there is no magic answer.

If you are gender critical, there is going to be a conflict when your child is asserting an ideology that cements gender stereotypes.

The fact is that they have assimilated them enough to deny their homosexuality.

You're not the first person to be in this position. And treading the tight rope between alienation and demanding reality is hard.

If it was me, I think I would just read as many detransitioning stories as I could, and find out what was the trigger that eventually made the kids deconstruct the brainwashing.

From what I can gather, it's not an overnight process, and requires a significant amount of patience and determination.

But that doesn't mean it can't be done.

Even though it's probably about a different sex might I suggest you start with Lily Maynard, if you haven't already. She is a fantastic communicator, and her story and that of her child is illuminating.

Datun, I have read lots of detransioning stories (as you can imagine my worst fear is detransitioning too late in the process) but I've never read them with that specific thought in mind so I'll revisit, thank you. Excellent suggestion.

On that thought judge, it's probably also useful to read them about males? I think your child is a male?

The main one I know is Walt Heyer. But, from the brief read I've had, he is quite evangelical. So maybe a bit too extreme for your child to ever take notice of. But still worth you reading, to glean as much useful data as possible.

I'm guessing a lot will depend upon how flexible your relationship with your kid is. And whether they will agree to occasionally read some of these stories with you, or after you, and discuss them.

In my experience, bribery, blackmail and humour helps when your kids are giving you a what the fuck moment.

The are a few stories from male detransitioners on the detrans Reddit sub.

This insta account is by one of the Pique Resilience women, I find it very moving.

instagram.com/detransstories

www.reddit.com/r/detrans/

Thanks, I'll take a look.

My child is open to conversation luckily. They have always enjoyed discussion which definitely helps.