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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Put back in my box

65 replies

Juells · 01/07/2019 20:47

I emailed the director of an organisation that I belong to, about the fact that the only options on their membership form were Gender Identity or non-binary.

I said, in part

I'm OK with you requesting gender identity for those of your members that have a gender identity, but most people don't. I'm female, why should I be forced to accept an identity I don't have? Women have fought against the idea of 'gender' for fifty years, and I object to having it foisted on me now. Gender is a social construct, stereotypes of how the two sexes should behave.

How can you possibly produce any reliable statistics about the membership of XXXX with such a wooly question?

Could you please offer the options of Male, Female, followed by gender identity or non binary?

OP posts:
Original poster
Juells · 01/07/2019 20:51

Just had an email back from him, which said:
Thank you for your email. I would like to mention two points. The first is that when we made the decision to change our wording in keeping with contemporary thought on the subject of gender, we changed to Gender Identity as the descriptor. This is very purposeful, and hasn’t been changed from Gender to Gender Identity since the original change.

I don’t want to get into a large discussion about your opinions on gender as these are your personal right. Our decision was made on the basis of an acknowledged language of inclusion. There has been a huge discussion internationally about how we now language identity and we have been grateful to the "Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation” organisation for their work in the area and how they have shared what is now considered at least one of the standards being adopted by organisations who want to recognise people’s right to represent their gender identity as fits their own personal circumstances. If I can quote a more eloquent article on the subject…

"Ideally, we'd live in a world where everyone could exist as whatever gender they are without constantly having to explain or defend themselves. In a world like that, we might not have to put a name to a gender. But that's not where we're at right now. Although there are more and more spaces that understand that there are many gender identities, we still live in a world where gender defaults to man or woman, and society at large rarely talks about genders that exist outside of that binary (and there are many).
Because we live in this world, labels are important. Being able to explain that not all people experience their gender as a man or a woman, but might be a mix of the two (bigender), or something entirely different (genderqueer), helps dismantle the rigidity of a gender binary. Having names and definitions for these gender identities can help gender non-conforming people shape an understanding of who they are, or more easily describe themselves to others.”

We have chosen to use one of the international standards that goes at least part of the way to represent inclusion and we believe that this engenders our belief in equality for all gender identities. For us to include a preliminary question based on the binary of female or male, followed by identifies as… removes the idea of inclusion and respect for all genders. For us, this would have a very opposite effect as it loses the person’s right to self-identification. If we believe that someone can be born in the wrong body or they find that they do not fit in a binary definition, we believe that we need to understand this in a respectful manner.

I am sorry that you may disagree with this, and hope that you will understand that we place equality and the equitable treatment of all people as central to all of our work.

---------------

Very depressed, and feeling that there is no logic or rationality left in the world.

OP posts:
Original poster
Juells · 01/07/2019 20:54

No surprise, he's a fucking bloke with a hipster beard Envy

OP posts:
DpWm · 01/07/2019 20:56

All is can say is Shock

Can't you reply and say I identify as genderfree so don't have a gender? But please recognise my biological sex s female? Otherwise you're excluding people like me? Something like that.

Also wtf is this organisation are they worth the time me of day?

R0wantrees · 01/07/2019 20:57

If we believe that someone can be born in the wrong body or they find that they do not fit in a binary definition, we believe that we need to understand this in a respectful manner.

So they believe some babies are born in the wrong body?

PierreBezukov · 01/07/2019 20:57

That's ridiculous. Logic and reason has gone. Women are being erased. We are getting closer to an authoritarian, thought-policed state.

DodoPatrol · 01/07/2019 20:58

Oh, how depressing.

I am neither of 'feminine identity' nor 'non-binary', as I'm not a totally self-obsessed pillock.

TeamUnicorn · 01/07/2019 21:00

Well that's a whole load of word salad, but I think it says that man and woman are so last year/century and we need to embrace this new brave world of different genders and make every single person with their unique gender experience feel unique.

Original poster
Juells · 01/07/2019 21:01

Why is an ordinary organisation applying to the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation for advice on how their fucking arsing membership forms are laid out? I really have steam coming out of my ears.

OP posts:
Faez · 01/07/2019 21:03

I got a headache reading that, load of jibberish

DpWm · 01/07/2019 21:05

Maybe write a stern reply that they are alienating the majority of people who don't have a gender identity and you won't be having anything to do with them in future.

Faez · 01/07/2019 21:05

Or gibberish..

R0wantrees · 01/07/2019 21:06

Why is an ordinary organisation applying to the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation for advice on how their fucking arsing membership forms are laid out?

Its trans ideology, not about Gay & lesbian defamation.

EverardDigby · 01/07/2019 21:07

I always fill in something in the other please state box where there is one and it asks for gender identity, hoping that other people do this too. It's fucking annoying though. As is his response.

zen1 · 01/07/2019 21:09

Wow - what a load of bollocks. Are you going to remain a member of the organisation, or has that email pushed you over the edge?

DuMondeB · 01/07/2019 21:12

How does one indicate they are a genderfree lesbian with that set up?

You need to outwoke him.

EverardDigby · 01/07/2019 21:17

I'm interested in knowing what they will do with the data if they get 60 different gender identities, is it even relevant to collect in the first place?

Also gender is a system that oppress women, we want to dismantle it, not reinforce it. Though I guess it's in men's interests that it stays....

MenuPlant · 01/07/2019 21:22

Yy

What are they intending to do with this data
What is their aim in collecting it

If it's got anything to do with equalities monitoring around sex then they aren't collecting the right info

Why do they need to know how people feel on the inside?

MenuPlant · 01/07/2019 21:24

Just say gender = NoneYouWankers

On the form?

Mumsymumphy · 01/07/2019 21:28

"I don’t want to get into a large discussion about your opinions on gender as these are your personal right". "But then I will bleat on for some length of time as to why we are so woke"

Makes my blood boil.

littlbrowndog · 01/07/2019 21:36

Cripes was he dead drunk when he wrote that o4 off his head on drugs.

Only explanation for such rambling shite

littlbrowndog · 01/07/2019 21:38

Perhaps ask him. Are you drunk or off your head on drugs cos nothing you have written makes sense

Elletorro · 01/07/2019 21:38

The EA2010 pc is sex. Defn is s212. They don’t record it they can’t track if they inadvertently discriminate against women because of their sex. Most sexism in the workplace is structural and indirect. It comes about because HR doesn’t recognise that supposedly neutral policies disproportionately negatively impact women. Obscuring sex will increase risk they don’t spot sexism.

Gender is not a thing. Gender reassignment is.

Gender identity might be a valid data to collect but it is not sex. It’s completely different otherwise why would Elan-Cane have wanted to erase their female marker from their passport and replace with an x? Non binary shows it’s not synonymous with sex. It’s a philosophical belief that gender identity should replace sex. I don’t believe that. Neither do you.

Evenquieterlife33 · 01/07/2019 21:43

I’d just reply and cross out the options adding that the only identity you have is woman/female.

Original poster
Juells · 01/07/2019 21:44

Ha ha I just took my dogs out for a walk to try to calm down, then had a row with a cyclist. Walking along the footpath and he silently whizzed by me from behind, gave me and dogs such a fright. I said "Jesus" and the dogs shrieked with fright. Big young bloke in shorts who immediately stopped and said "What do you mean by that?" aggressively. I said "this is a footpath" he started filming me and said "your dogs attacked me" Tiny dogs, chihuahuas! Grin Grin Grin I said "don't be ridiculous" He rode off looking back threateningly at me, and I shouted "Arsehole". So much for calming down.

I would like to email back, but I'd rant. Any suggestions? Though I think it might be a lost cause when I see the magnificence of his beard.

OP posts:
littlbrowndog · 01/07/2019 21:49

I don’t think you can have chit chat with such an idiot and do what even said 👆

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