would you date someone who is gender critical?

[Bespin]

Seeing as there is a would you date a trans person thread for proper balance I'm sure you will be happy with a would you date a gender critical person. I know we could ask for every other characteristic that people do and do not find attractive, and then we can judge people by there answers. But no one needs to date anyone they are not attracted too.

So my answer is I'd probably be attracted to them but over time if there views were such that they impacted on me negatively then that would be a massive turn off.

Actually, this question has made me very, very cranky.

Bespin, do you understand the role gender plays in fucking up the lives of women and girls ? Do you understand that there are small and huge ways in which our lives - which are of equal value to a males' - go shit because of gender ? Do you understand feminism has at its heart a quest to allow women and girls to live free of gendered expectations ?

If you do understand these things, how in the fuck would you expect a woman to date anyone who upholds gender ? Wouldn't you empathise with the need for women and girls to be around others who can help them smash gendered expectations ? Why on earth would you personally, find criticism of gender to be a relationship-limiting behaviour ?

I mean, if you are not criticising gender, you are upholding it, either actively or passively. Why on earth would you expect women to invite people into their lives who are upholding a system that harms them ? It's like wondering why a Jewish woman won't date an anti-Semite. Of course she will exclusively date people without that particular world view. Same with women who can see that gender is harmful to them - why on earth would you think they would date anyone other than someone who accepts that basic reality of their life ?

If two regressive people want to get together and further gender, particularly as it represses women and girls, I can't stop them, but I don't see why that is something to get excited about. To me, its basically the same as a woman getting involved in some kind of patriarchal fundamentalist marriage shit.

Basically, being critical of gender should be a pre-requistite for any forward thinking person who care about women and girls (and for that matter, boys and men!)

If I were single I would only date someone who was GC and voted remain

Actually, this question has made me very, very cranky.

Yes, that was exactly the point of it. Why people waste time on answering questions posted in bad faith is beyond me.

Looks like the ‘would you date a trans person’ thread struck a nerve then

Why people waste time on answering questions posted in bad faith is beyond me

Lurkers.

I know from other forums that lurkers read, and think, and change their minds based on GC posts. MN is no different. It's never for the person posting in bad faith.

Fair enough, Jane. You’re more patient than I am!

As someone said on the other thread, the medical profession should be making it clear to people considering surgery, cross sex hormones etc., that their dating pool will be drastically reduced. Any thing else is grossly unfair

janekettle I think I'm 21st century phobic too.

I am GC. I suspect the guy I am going on a date with tomorrow is not. I'll let you know!

Yeah Jane keep it up. I am a lurker. Been here 11 years and post from time to time under different usernames.

I have got ALL of my views on trans stuff from here and I am GC (and learned the term on here).

So it was people like you who were bold enough (and arsed enough) to type out what they thought who formed my thinking - thank you .

Do you understand the role gender plays in fucking up the lives of women and girls ?

Isn’t that sex? Aren’t women and girls oppressed because of their sex? Sex can’t be changed.

I snogged a guy in a dress once - he didn’t think he was a woman though, he was just dressing up. He had long hair and everything, still not a woman.

A prerequisite of dating (if I ever do that again) would be an understanding of basic biology. So yes, being GC is very much a given for anyone I date.

GC people acknowledge physical and biological reality.
And that men need to be kept out of women's spaces because men are a vastly greater threat to women.

I feel that the OP does not understand this truth.

I'd only date a gender critical person.

I snogged a guy in a dress once

I loved the 1990s. I'm sure there were years when I didn't snog any man who wasn't wearing a dress and/or make-up. Happy days.

FieldOfGreyCorn- women are oppressed on the basis of their sex. The gender stereotypes attached to their sex by society are used to limit their opportunities.

A foul thread popped up yesterday started by some nasty little gobshite asking if people would date someone disabled. Just sick. It disappeared within minutes I’m pleased to say. Some people are really messed up with this stuff, you have to pity them in a way.

I loved the 1990s. I'm sure there were years when I didn't snog any man who wasn't wearing a dress and/or make-up. Happy days.

Ditto, the '80s. Good times.

I wouldn't date anyone who thought gender was a real thing. By the same token, I wouldn't date someone who described themselves as a typical Sagittarius. Gender is like astrology: a weird, artificially constructed belief some people like to apply to themselves.

OMG I snogged a bloke in a toga once, I had forgotten about that. He definitely didn't identify as a Roman.

Life seemed a lot simpler when I was young.

Life seemed a lot simpler when I was young.

That's it, isn't it? For me, it was the 60's and 70's. The 70's especially were, for me, golden years. Yes, I had a few self-esteem problems but they seem like nothing compared to the labyrinths young women today have to navigate, what with male sense of entitlement to sex (that didn't exist back then), male expectations of what a woman should look like and provide sexually, violence, and now all this gender shite.

I'd be regarded as an old prude now, but at least I'm a happy and laid-back old prude.

These people don't seem to even know how to be happy. They seem to be chasing after rainbows in the distance and unicorns which will never materialise.

I still think the best course is Just Say No. But it can be hard.

I'd be regarded as an old prude now, but at least I'm a happy and laid-back old prude

The odd thing is, my generation who were young in the '80s and '90s were not remotely prudish. Quite the opposite. It has struck me that believing in gender seems to go along with a rather dated conformity and, dare I say it, prudishness. There's an idea that women should be lady-like, deferent and akin to 1950s housewives.

Given that I refuse to do anything conventionally masculine, I can only date GC people.

Dated a woman once who believed in all that gender stuff. She threw an ashtray at my head because I wouldn't 'take charge' or shout at her to assert my authority. Called me unmanly. Definitely not what I'm into.

If someone asks a question about dating trans people then it is fair to ask the opersite question.

Oh dear dear, Bespin you’ve messed up again! And I don’t just mean your spelling! You don’t really understand do you? The opposite of a transgendered person isn’t a gender critical person. It’s a male or female of the standard variety. Not wanting to date trans people is about sexuality, not disagreeing with an opinion they hold. It’s sexuality. There is no opposite question.

The question was posted in good faith, because as people keep pointing out, they want a balanced debate about these things. So both questions are equally valid. As far as i know this is a feminism board and not all feminists are gender critical and not everyone on mumsnet is either, just because the majority of current posters on here have a particular view does not mean everyone does and people have the right to post or ask the questions that they want answered. I am truly amazed that this is 124 replies long. I have most of them and did not expect many different answers to the ones i got. People as many have said can make there own minds up .

That's horrific, Meph - .

And yes to what Jessica said. Not dating someone with a penis/vulva because what turns you on is vulvas/penises (delete as appropriate) is sexuality.

Not dating someone GC is like... not dating an atheist if you're religious, or a Tory if you're a socialist, etc. It's simply "given the mismatch in our world views, I don't think we'd suit".

So the questions aren't mirror images at all.

Also, every person is allowed to rule out any person they want from their dating pool for what to others may seem the silliest of reasons - e.g. "he took his underpants off before his socks, and the sight of him with a stiffie and his socks round his ankles left me as dry as the Sahara", "he had this really annoying tendency to go 'harumph' in conversation before he made what he thought was an interesting point", "he put the cream on his scone before the jam"...

As Magadalen Burns once pithily observed, dating is all about discrimination - choosing one person ahead of others for whatever arbitrary reasons happen to float your boat.