Use of trans identified male as opposed to transwoman.

[happydappy2]

MNHQ There has been much written recently about how the controlling of the words we use, is very misleading. Many women reject the word transwoman as it can be misunderstood. In light of this, would you reconsider yr guidelines that Trans Identified Male can not be used? It would seem a more factually accurate description of a human male who presents in a stereotypically female way. Thank you.

I’ll gladly go back to saying TWAW, and never reference TW being male again, if our right to female spaces is respected.

They'll be awfully sad if they aren't able to access all women's spaces, I'm sure Sue would agree.

This is emotionally blackmailing bullshit. (Not you)

Cross post decomposing

Let’s face it, what we really need to call trans women to describe them accurately is a word that rhymes with hen, beginning with M, and we are not allowed to......we are trying to find a suitable compromise that doesn’t obfuscate & mislead.

The forcing of manufactured language; of the type which feels neither freely chosen, nor in accord with reality is never going to wash with the general public; and it is not going to wash with many of us here.

It is not realistic, and is not going to happen. I can think of no other group that would even expect this.

I'm not sure what you are hoping to achieve now - apart from continual disruption.

This. It's not a good faith argument.

That is exactly how I feel. We have no more write to say how trans women can describe themselves as we do how black people describe themselves

Stop coming out with this unthought through racist clap trap.

"I'm GC but I don't think you should be able to point out that a group of males who adhere to a male's stereotypical idea of womanhood are destroying women's rights and are entirely different from actual female people".

The forcing of manufactured language;

All language is manufactured. New words and new names for things happens all the time.

Transwoman is not the same as woman. It is a different word. As Earlywalker woman is not a variation of man, it is a different word with a different meaning.

SuePerbly in the evidence session I posted upthread, do you think Karen Ingala Smith referred to tw as trans-identified males in order to be cruel or deliberately hurt them?

"I'm GC but you should be forced to lie to prop up a sexist ideology and protect male feelings"

Transwoman is not the same as woman. It is a different word.

LOL. Tell that to the "trans women are women" crowd. I'll take out shares in a popcorn company.

Ereksh how is using the word ‘transwoman’ a lie? I’ve asked this a few times on this thread but no one has responded yet.

*Men: I don’t care, I find ‘woman’ offensive. What would your response be?8

What a load of meaningless clap-trap, would be my response. Honestly, these examples are terrible. Your desperation to persuade is not doing you any justice at all.

So please don’t come out with ‘comprehension issues

Exactly, it's right there!

That is exactly how I feel. We have no more write to say how trans women can describe themselves as we do how black people describe themselves

That's a false analogy. To rewrite it more meaningfully "We have no more right to say how transwomen can define themselves than we do when white people describe themselves as black"

Earlywalker

I believe it was naughty ol' me who first misgendered you on this thread. 25mins later I responded to your post with this:

(you'ld posted) While we’re at it, could you come over and tell my son I’m a man? I’ve been trying to get him off breastfeeding for what feels like forever but he isn’t having it. He might listen to you?

(my response) Hilarious! grin I'd do no such thing though. Big supporter of allowing babies to self wean so I'll keep my trap shut!

Apologies for the presumption. I just find it so hard to believe that women would not get the damage that is being done to women and children by allowing the misappropriation of the word Women by using it (even joined with 'trans') to refer to a male bodied person.

I thought my apology was friendly, humorous and courteous in that I bothered to explain why I'd made the initial presumption. We don't know who each other are. There's no reason to have presumed you were female any more than male, so I went on my gut instincts. When I hear a person blatantly defending the feelings of males over the safety of females, on a feminist board, too right I suspect they might be male. Nothing wrong with that. It's completely understandable.

As soon as you put me right, I responded by apologising. That's how communication between strangers who can't see each other goes. You could've let it go then but many many hours later you're still banging on about it.

how is using the word ‘transwoman’ a lie?

Because the people who describe themselves as such are not in any way women.

Ereksh how is using the word ‘transwoman’ a lie? I’ve asked this a few times on this thread but no one has responded yet.

You've been answered multiple times about why people feel it's inaccurate and wrong. Don't be disingenuous, it's not a good look.

Ereksh how is using the word ‘transwoman’ a lie? I’ve asked this a few times on this thread but no one has responded yet

I responded at some length early yesterday, but you completely neglected to either read it, or acknowledge what was said.

This continual lobbying for validation is not healthy. A Secure sense of self does not require such validation. If yo only when other people confirm that you exist, then that would normally be seen as a mental health issue.

They'll be awfully sad if they aren't able to access all women's spaces,

What all of them? Why do you always insist on lumping them all together in one big mass? That's what it sounds like.

If you only exist when other people confirm you exist ( correction)

Well, you won't, will you? As your view aligns with the echo. Try posting against it sometimes.
You'll see it really isn't bollocks.

Except both rufus and myself specified it was when we posted 'against the echo' ( ) that we weren't called men, MRAs or TRAs.

I really do find the echo chamber claims odd. Whatever topic you speak about, you will tend to get a majority view and a minority one, thats usual. Yet, people answering the minority view on trans stuff are accused of shouting down or something. Honestly, about the only thing you would get a 50/50 split on is talking about Brexit

On no other thread, is having a minority opinion and arguing it..classed as the 'echo' trying to shut you down. Bloody hell, AIBU is full to the brim of threads where near every user disagrees with the OP, and I have not yet seen anyone on there claim to be shut down, or bullied away, or whatever random accusation is thrown at feminists who wish to argue against (what is usually) an antifeminst view, or whatever.

This continual lobbying for validation is not healthy. A Secure sense of self does not require such validation.

Elephant in the room. Or it's about the power to make people repeat a lie.

we've tried using obfuscatory language to be polite. I've tried it. it just stops you from saying what you mean

just because someone wants to be something they can never be, doesn't mean I have to pretend along with them.

I am aware that this sounds cruel

but when you're talking about the safety of women and girls, which is preserved by single sex spaces, it's important to be able to refer correctly to people's sex

*All language is manufactured. New words and new names for things happens all the time

But only used by common consent.

Give up! This is the saddest, most tedious thing ever.

A transwoman by definition means: a (male) who emotionally and psychologically believes they belong to the opposite sex (female)

It does not mean they are female.

Or are you saying that you’ve seen into every Transwomans mind and it’s not true?