Use of trans identified male as opposed to transwoman.

[happydappy2]

MNHQ There has been much written recently about how the controlling of the words we use, is very misleading. Many women reject the word transwoman as it can be misunderstood. In light of this, would you reconsider yr guidelines that Trans Identified Male can not be used? It would seem a more factually accurate description of a human male who presents in a stereotypically female way. Thank you.

If someone says it without knowing many find it offensive, that’s one thing. To keep saying it when you’ve been told the person you’re referring to finds it offensive, is another.

Agree, it's the constant doing it even though you know it's offensive and not caring that's the problem.

When someone thinks they can decide what you’re allowed to find offensive over your own identity, it’s not nice
Careful, you'll have someone tell you women aren't supposed to be nice in a minute to justify it!

Just for the ‘it never happens’ crew.

I certainly dont think it never happens as I have seen it before, though a hell of a lot more rarely than some make out. Glad MN delete it actually as its petty. However, I have to agree that MRA/TRAs are fairy easy to spot. Men, of course, not so much, not online anyway!

ou have to post in complete agreement with the other posters, never deviating, or else you are lying, a TRA, an MRA or a man

I dont agree with everyone on here, i have many times said that

I said it a lot on a recent thread

And never have i been told that i am lying, or a TRA or MRA or a man

So bollocks...

At no point have i said that people on here have NOT been called thise things

But it does not happen to every poster, loads of people on these threads disagree on certain matters

To say otherwise is a complete load of bullshit...or bollocks

LimeKiwi

You understood what I was trying to say perfectly.

but meh, its easy to ignore if I disagree with it

Absolutely

You understood what I was trying to say perfectly

Phew

And never have i been told that i am lying, or a TRA or MRA or a man So bollocks...

Well, you won't, will you? As your view aligns with the echo. Try posting against it sometimes.
You'll see it really isn't bollocks.

But it does not happen to every poster, loads of people on these threads disagree on certain matters To say otherwise is a complete load of bullshit...or bollocks

Who said it does happen to every poster? People have just said it frequently happens, not to every poster so not sure what you're bullshit bollocksing at

I certainly dont think it never happens as I have seen it before

I agree bat

But some posters obviously have comprehension problems

And are incredibly disingenuous

SuePerbly

Your post is excellent and says, far more eloquently, everything that I've been attempting to say.

That is exactly how I feel. We have no more write to say how trans women can describe themselves as we do how black people describe themselves.

Calling a trans woman a "trans identifying male" doesn't accurately describe what a trans women is, though

Yes it does. Despite their identity, they are male. Not women.

Rufus

bats post which I was replying to said this:

On this thread though, there have been many many posts about you 2 being called men, but I have not actually seen anyone call you men

So please don’t come out with ‘comprehension issues’

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer

Try a little experiment - name change and then post your disagreement with a point.

You won't receive the same tolerance as when posting with your recognised name.

That is exactly how I feel. We have no more write to say how trans women can describe themselves as we do how black people describe themselves.

You've been asked to stop using black people to make a false comparison. I suggest you respect that.

What on earth makes you think i was referring to you early

Not everything is about you

I think you comprehend perfectly well

Off topic but Rose of Dawn is quite good on TDOR

Sue personally I was happy to say TWAW for a couple of years. I thought it was kind, and I wanted to be supportive. Then TRAs got a rape crisis centre defunded and I had a closer look. Vancouver has three rape crisis centres - two of those were inclusive of TW, who are less than 1% of the population. TRAs defunded the sole female-only place, the one place women could go who wanted that.

If I am in refuge with my child, and sleeping and showering in the same space as others, I do not care how someone identifies. What matters is their sex, because this has the biggest impact on our safety. Women have been raped in this situation.

I’ll gladly go back to saying TWAW, and never reference TW being male again, if our right to female spaces is respected.

What do you think?

However, you have certainly lost some GC feminists support on this thread alone. Extrapolate that across society and if the attitudes on this thread repel some GC feminists, I would be highly surprised if you managed to adopt many non-GC feminists to the views here

deary, deary me. understanding that a male person is male, regardless of the stereotypes they chose to adhere to is mean and means people won't like me.

ou won't receive the same tolerance as when posting with your recognised name

I have seen many many other posters say the same stuff as me

They have not been called those things either

I have seen posters called those things

But i very very rarely post in absolutes

deary, deary me. understanding that a male person is male, regardless of the stereotypes they chose to adhere to is mean and means people won't like me.

I know. Total sadface.

one of the things that I love about this place is that it's not about you, it's about your opinions . the people here don't know you, but if you're talking bobbins they'll certainly clue you in on that

Imagine if this was the conversation:

Men: woman you’re not allowed to be called woman anymore, it sounds too much like men.

Woman: Woman is not ‘man’ prefixed with ‘wo’ it has its own definition away from males.

Men: Nope, some people might not understand that. We will call you ‘vagina havers’ instead as it more accurately describes you.

Woman: we don’t want to be called that we find it offensive.

Men: I don’t care, I find ‘woman’ offensive.

What would your response be?

But while you are posting under your known name you will get a very different reaction to if it were a name that wasn't recognised.

Anyway

I appreciate I’m not keeping to the original OP

So I’ll stop

People’s identity is such a sensitive topic because it’s what makes them who they are. When someone thinks they can decide what you’re allowed to find offensive over your own identity, it’s not nice

Some 'identities' are based in the facts of material reality, though - and not chosen; such as sex or race. These 'identities' are visible and are unchangeable.

The other sorts of identities, such as those that we may feel internally; and/or which are changing or passing phenomenon ( as most interior identity focuses are) do not describe material reality as it is experienced or witnessed by the world at large. They are personal.

Our internal sense of self shifts and changes throughout our lives; and in response to external circumstances and experiences. This is the same for everyone. These sorts of identities are personally felt and experienced, but do not necessarily have any validity for anyone else.

It is unrealistic, and against material reality, to insist that people refer to your intangible sense of self in some fixed or prescribed way. Most people try to be polite and honour guests, or others, as much as is feasible, but it is a two way process.

To expect people to validate your own interior sense of self is unrealistic. An 'identity' that demands this must be incredibly insecure and shaky if it requires total conformity and obedience from the world at large just to exist.

The forcing of manufactured language; of the type which feels neither freely chosen, nor in accord with reality is never going to wash with the general public; and it is not going to wash with many of us here.

It is not realistic, and is not going to happen. I can think of no other group that would even expect this.

I'm not sure what you are hoping to achieve now - apart from continual disruption.