Use of trans identified male as opposed to transwoman.

[happydappy2]

MNHQ There has been much written recently about how the controlling of the words we use, is very misleading. Many women reject the word transwoman as it can be misunderstood. In light of this, would you reconsider yr guidelines that Trans Identified Male can not be used? It would seem a more factually accurate description of a human male who presents in a stereotypically female way. Thank you.

PencilsInSpace Thank you for that clarification, Pencils. Much appreciated.

Nobody has yelled 'man'

False accusations and allegations are often indicative of admissions.
Its interesting what people reveal.

Err, really?

You remind me of my project leader who, after reading the first draft of my dissertation, handed it back to me the next day and proclaimed "its biggest shortcoming is that it's obvious a women wrote this" (this was in the mid 80s).

What sex was your Project leader? Male, possibly?

You make my point for me, perhaps?

You can not determine someone’s sex by conversation.

Woman do not have to fit stereotypes of how you think they should behave.

Feminism fights against stereotypes.

If you don’t consider yourself a feminist, why are you here?

Such men are autogynephilic males
Even if your figure of 75% was correct, and I wouldn’t put money on it, that still leaves 25% who by your definition are not... or are you backtracking on your earlier post?

Such men are autogynephilic males.

Are they? Even using the figures that appear to have no basis, it was only 75% so where do you get that all transwomen are autogynephilic from?

Is it the same place where you discovered made up that all women communicate in the same way and that you can work out who is male and who is female simply from their writing style?

Why thank you Jacky!

Another reason why it is absolutely imperative to always be clear that we are speaking about male people, when we are - and I know it’s been said before but always bears repeating -

TRAs insist that “TWAW” in order to disguise the true nature of the power dynamic, the axis of male/female oppression.

If “TWAW”, then women become the oppressor class and “transwomen” the marginalised, vulnerable, oppressed group that we are dominating and controlling.

This is clearly absolute horseshit.

Transactivism would never have got a hundredth as far as it has if its proponents didn’t benefit from all their male privilege, status, wealth etc. Their infinitely louder voice, their vastly greater structural power in society as a result of being MALE. (And yes of course I know some prominent TRAs are female, but no one who has ever engaged their brain could imagine that transactivism would have been the runaway success it has if it were primarily about representing female people.)

Female people do not oppress male people in a patriarchal society.

Male people oppress female people in a patriarchal society. (And use horrifying levels of violence, sexual violence, coercion and social control against us too.)

ANY attempt to co-opt any word associated with female people to make it seem as if some male people are actually female people, and a marginalised subset of female people at that - and that includes the made up compound word “transwoman” as well as the even more odious version with the space in between - is a deliberate and misogynist distortion of reality; a deliberate attempt to obscure and invert the true power dynamic at play here.

And is also grossly disrespectful to and oppressive towards genuinely marginalised and disadvantaged women.

When female people have genuinely equal power and influence in society to that which male people have, when female people are at no more risk from male people than male people are from female people, then these words might be harmless. Till then, they’re poison. Female erasing, woman hating poison.

JackyHolyOake

Yes I agree. My point is that if men want to claim they are women then women have some right to decide if they feel these men are or are not women. It is not offensive (even if these men think so) if women decide they are not. And the way the dictionary definitions of woman and transwoman are worded actually supports this.

Even if your figure of 75% was correct

It is not my statistic. It is the statistic agreed by psychologists and psychiatrists who, for decades, have worked with people / patients who have wanted to engage in some sort of transition process.

What sex was your Project leader? Male, possibly?

Yes, moreover, he was an unpleasant, sexist person.

You make my point for me, perhaps?

I'm not sure, are you claiming to be male?

women have some right to decide if they feel these men are or are not women

No .. they do not have any "right" to so do.

No-one has any right to sacrifice the established rights of anyone in law.

See UN Declaration of Human Rights.

See CEDAW.

See Convention on the Rights of Children.

See UK's Human Rights Act 1998.

See UK's gender recognition Act 2004.

See UK's Equality Act 2010.

Tissue, anyone?

You make my point for me, perhaps? I'm not sure, are you claiming to be male?

My point is that males communicate and interact differently with females than do females with females.

It is not my statistic. It is the statistic agreed by psychologists and psychiatrists who, for decades, have worked with people / patients who have wanted to engage in some sort of transition process.

So then why are you saying that all transwomen are AGP, if the statistics that you quoted don't support that?

Such men are autogynephilic males. Are they? Even using the figures that appear to have no basis, it was only 75% so where do you get that all transwomen are autogynephilic from?

From here:

"Autogynephilia is a probably rare, although it is difficult to know for certain. Among males who seek gender transition, however, it is common. In fact, in Western countries in recent years, including the United States, autogynephilia has accounted for at least 75% of cases of male-to-female transsexualism."

4thwavenow.com/2017/12/07/gender-dysphoria-is-not-one-thing/

False accusations and allegations are often indicative of admissions.
Its interesting what people reveal.

Indeed.

My point is that males communicate and interact differently with females than do females with females.

Do you have research to back up that assertion? Because, clearly, you are wrong that you can identify the sex of posters on this thread.

My point is that males communicate and interact differently with females than do females with females.

Thank you, I agree that that is likely the case in a very general sense but it can't be used as a determining factor in single point cases. Additionally, using it as a benchmark of how someone 'should' or 'shouldn't' communicate based upon their gender and that of the person they're communicating with (I'm not specifically accusing you of claiming this) seems, to me, to reenforce gender stereotypes/roles in a negative way.

The remaining 25% are homosexual transsexuals who, since same-sex marriage became law in many countries, are in decline since there is a lesser need for them to seek out any process of transition.

JackyHolyoake

Where, in that quite, does it say all then? Only that's twice now that you've said all transwomen are AGP. So where are you getting your 100% from?

My point is that males communicate and interact differently with females than do females with females.

I think all people communicate differently. For example, as a working class mixed race woman who has had a far from easy upbringing where I’ve had to defend myself more times than most, I may communicate differently from a white middle class woman who was taught how to ‘behave like a lady’ and went to university and married a banker.

Neither is more of a ‘woman’.

TRAs insist that “TWAW” in order to disguise the true nature of the power dynamic, the axis of male/female oppression.

If “TWAW”, then women become the oppressor class and “transwomen” the marginalised, vulnerable, oppressed group that we are dominating and controlling.

This is clearly absolute horseshit.

Transactivism would never have got a hundredth as far as it has if its proponents didn’t benefit from all their male privilege, status, wealth etc. Their infinitely louder voice, their vastly greater structural power in society as a result of being MALE. (And yes of course I know some prominent TRAs are female, but no one who has ever engaged their brain could imagine that transactivism would have been the runaway success it has if it were primarily about representing female people.)

Female people do not oppress male people in a patriarchal society.

Male people oppress female people in a patriarchal society. (And use horrifying levels of violence, sexual violence, coercion and social control against us too.)

Yes absolutely
Its a core aspect of feminism & women's rights to always be able to identify & name power dynamics.

And just in case you want to deny it here is one of the posts where you said it

men feeling they are women.

Such men are autogynephilic males.

Neither is more of a ‘woman’.

A much better way of putting it than "'should' or 'shouldn't"