Use of trans identified male as opposed to transwoman.

[happydappy2]

MNHQ There has been much written recently about how the controlling of the words we use, is very misleading. Many women reject the word transwoman as it can be misunderstood. In light of this, would you reconsider yr guidelines that Trans Identified Male can not be used? It would seem a more factually accurate description of a human male who presents in a stereotypically female way. Thank you.

RO

Do you have the link to the first half of Julia's presentation please?

I should also imagine that repeatedly insisting a woman is actually a man is gaslighting too

This is why words matter

One assumes you mean transwoman...

Dear goddess we're now on to the bloody I'm GC but... business. Top tip: it doesn't require several hundred words and a dozen paragraphs. Seen, done, t-shirts duly got.

The thread is not about trying to stop any genderists/queer theory devotees using the reality-defying words they prefer.

The thread is not about deciding which are the "correct" terms to use.

The thread is about MNHQ rescinding its language rules on FWR so that all can use the terms they feel fit with their sincerely held beliefs.

It's a fairly simple thread really.

Should MNHQ rescind the Special Trans rules and re-allow banned terms such as TIM, cis, TERF, etc?

Yes? Or no?

I say yes.

Yes

So if anyone is entitled to ask mumsnet to relook at the rules can I post a thread asking to reconsider cs and t*f and that we then debate that and ask for a responce from mumsnet. that is the equivalent argument to this thread. what do you think would happen if I did that and what do you think people would say. no one likes being told what other people want to call you when you state you are not something

All of the terminology and names you refer to ( including CIS and TERF) have been created by transgender theory and ideology - not by the people who post here for the reason of sisterhood and/or community. These boards are not so much for the purpose of debate about essentials - since most of us have found our way here because we already perceive a community of agreement on this issue.

We could go round and round in circles; indeed you already have....and we'll never agree on the desirability or rightfulness of using these terms. So I'm not sure why you are bothering.

Some things in life are just facts. That there are males and females is one of them. One cannot change sex. This is a fact. As far as I'm concerned I'm not going to use language which denies reality, especially not so if coercion is attempted.

One assumes you mean transwoman...

No, I mean referring to posters like myself and Earlywalker as men, simply because we disagree with some of what is said on here.

So telling me repeatedly that I am a man, when I am most definitely a woman, must surely be gaslighting.

Its not all about you Decomposing

decomposing how do you define woman?

The thread is not about trying to stop any genderists/queer theory devotees using the reality-defying words they prefer.

The thread is not about deciding which are the "correct" terms to use.

The thread is about MNHQ rescinding its language rules on FWR so that all can use the terms they feel fit with their sincerely held beliefs.

It's a fairly simple thread really.

Should MNHQ rescind the Special Trans rules and re-allow banned terms such as TIM, cis, TERF, etc?

Yes? Or no?

I say yes.

I say yes

Uncivil behaviour which definitely does not enabled reasoned discussion isn't about single word descriptors
Context matters
Language matters

We see you guys ... you give yourselves away each and every time.

What does this even mean? Presumably, given how you start the post, you are saying that we are men, because we have a male style of communication. Which is just simply bizarre. Good to see that stereotypes are alive and kicking on the FWR board - you can't be a woman because you don't think or communicate like a woman. Do you not see how ridiculous that sounds?

how do you define woman?

An adult human female, which is what I am. Despite other posters seeking to tell me that I'm not because if my posting style!!!!!!

Jacky If asking you to back up your opinions during a debate is controlling behaviour, good luck to you in the real world. You must be a man, real woman don’t minimise really controlling behaviour in the way you do.

If asking you to back up your opinions during a debate is controlling behaviour ...

I was not giving an opinion with that 75% statistic I was stating a known fact. Facts are different from opinions.

decomposing of course he’s calling me a man, he’s made that very clear.

If it’s a fact, I don’t see why it’s controlling to ask where you got your facts from.

Do you not see how ridiculous that sounds?

No .. it happens to be true ... men have a very different way of interacting with women than women do amongst themselves. Women are able to recognise those differences and most men seem not to have that ability. Being able to recognise such differences is one of the lessons we learn by living in a very patriarchal society. It becomes a tactic in our survival strategy.

I do think it's pointless trying to guess the sex of people over the internet. The arguments are the things that matter.

And, given that several women in this thread have actually met me at women's meetings .. you may want to avoid embarrassing yourselves any further.

Jacky oh right, maybe I’m actually trans then because I’m a bit to mouthy and my opinions are a bit to strong to be a woman. I’m not nice enough.

Can you recommend a good doctor to help me grow my penis?

Oh and, by the way, that 75% statistic is likely to rise since now that same-sex marriage is legal in many countries, there is much less need for homosexuals to engage in any transition process.

I was not giving an opinion with that 75% statistic I was stating a known fact. Facts are different from opinions.

How do you define fact exactly? Only I read the article that you quoted and I didn't see any mention of facts. It was just a sentence that they wrote - they didn't reference any studies or sources for that figure, so how is it a fact exactly?

Where are the mn rules. Can anyone kindly link? I was wondering if the terms MTF and FTM are banned because personally I find these the least confusing terms. May be considered offensive though.

No, I mean referring to posters like myself and Earlywalker as men

Oh apologies

Thank fuck i said assume...

they didn't reference any studies or sources for that figure, so how is it a fact exactly?

I suggest you examine the research of Dr Ray Blanchard, Prof Michael Bailey and Dr Anne Lawrence .. all available via the Internet.