Use of trans identified male as opposed to transwoman.

[happydappy2]

MNHQ There has been much written recently about how the controlling of the words we use, is very misleading. Many women reject the word transwoman as it can be misunderstood. In light of this, would you reconsider yr guidelines that Trans Identified Male can not be used? It would seem a more factually accurate description of a human male who presents in a stereotypically female way. Thank you.

Rowan it’s a bit hypocritical to tell me what I should and shouldn’t be concerned about don’t you think?

earlywalker I haven't done this.

Please stop making false allegations.

Demand: use words appropriated from your sex to describe people not of your sex and who comprise the oppressor class of your sex.

Response: no.

Two letters. The only two letters required. No is a complete sentence. End fucking off.

In a saggy tits fuck up your typing note: of also only has two letters.

You seem to be misunderstanding what 'male-pattern behaviours' means.

Nope. I understand what male- pattern behaviours are.

But that isn't what you said.

Its always interesting to observe males attempting to disrupt women discussing the impact of not being able to correctly identify some males.

You said it's interesting to observe males. You were insinuating that posters disagreeing with you are male. You didn't say that posters were displaying make pattern behaviour.

Even more interesting was Lang's quite aggressive "no" in response to a poster asking them a question. I think that is actually an example of male pattern behaviour. What conclusion could we draw from that?

EarlyWalker I can see threads on FWR that are about rape, the Green Party, education, safeguarding and sport. All women's issues all on a women's rights board or 'feminist chat' board.

I don't know where you get all the trans stuff from, sure sometimes there is a cross over but as it's a ideology and a big movement which is gaining political power I think it's fair for women to be raising issues around this that will directly affect them, on a public forum that anyone can join.

The thing about free speech is you can talk about anything you want.

You seem to be misunderstanding what 'male-pattern behaviours' means.

As I've just said you didn't refer to make pattern behaviour.

You referred only to "males".

How can we get women to support our viewpoint? Aah yes, the best way to do it is to alienate them

Not doing feminism correctly again. Slaps naughty Ereshkigal on wrist.

Not sure I understand. What’s wrong with trans woman?

Because of all of the policing it is getting to the stage when I feel like I need a shower after saying that myself. It feels like a contaminated word because of now negative associations.

Even more interesting was Lang's quite aggressive "no" in response to a poster asking them a question.

Lang declined a demand. Lang made no demands of others. Lang has been explicit that others should feel free to express their views as they please.

0/10

But that isn't what you said.

Its always interesting to observe males attempting to disrupt women discussing the impact of not being able to correctly identify some males.

You said it's interesting to observe males. You were insinuating that posters disagreeing with you are male. You didn't say that posters were displaying make pattern behaviour.

I have talked both about male-pattern behaviours & also how I find it interesting to observe males attempting to disrupt women speaking.

I do find it interesting to observe.
In all aspects of life online & in real life.

Its often very apparent on this forum.

Male-pattern behaviour is also evident in speech patterns.
(there's lots written about this & many studies doen)

I've been using "male who identifies as trans" for weeks now, both in writing and speaking and this has the advantage that it avoids any and all confusion because the leading word is of course the most important

Yes, its tiresome to use the full, long hand explanation, but often required in my view.

I’m pretty sure anyone posting on the feminist boards knows quite clearly what a transwoman is, since there’s probably a minimum of one post a day about them

Not necessarily, since the rainbow nation of possibility for what now constitutes a woman in trans speak is not at all clear - other than a man who says he is a woman.

The intense heat and prohibition around language - pronouns etc - has created a compensatory reaction around forced speech - of the type which you are expected to use even when you don't hold it to be true.

Male who identifies as trans is good. Puts the Male bit first and foremost, so is an accurate description.

Male-pattern behaviour is also evident in speech patterns.

Maybe so. But in the post I am referring to, you didn't talk about male pattern behaviour.

You said that it was interesting how males were disrupting the discussion. That is insinuating that posters on here are men so why are you furiously back pedalling and now trying to re write your post by introducing the concept of male pattern behaviour?

If you think we are men, then say so. Why try and pretend that isn't what you were saying when it's as clear as day that you were? As I said, you obviously adhere to stereotypes and any person not complying with your idea of how a woman thinks or behaves must be a man. That's very sexist.

Naming men as man was such a vital part of the women's liberation movement and feminist scholarship back in those early days. There were lots of books that had 'silence' in the title or essays that had 'silence' in the title because it was about women breaking the silences of our own lives and naming who was doing what to whom, and then seeing that there were patterns of this and that is how feminist theory emerged. So it's really crucial to name men as men because that is how we develop an understanding and an analysis of patriarchy. That's how. If we can't name men as men then we can't name patterns of male violence, we can't name who is in control.

Dr Long provides important historical background to the issue which I hope all can agree is more significant.

You said that it was interesting how males were disrupting the discussion. That is insinuating that posters on here are men so why are you furiously back pedalling and now trying to re write your post by introducing the concept of male pattern behaviour?

No you are misrepresenting again.

I said it is always interesting to observe males attempting to disrupt women speaking
It is always interesting to me to observe such a pattern.

That is a statement of fact.

Transwoman is the dictionary definition of a male to female transsexual. If you can’t even cope with saying ‘transwoman’ don’t act like you’ve experienced ‘literal violance’ if you are called CIS

I don't think anyone does respond as if they've experienced"literal violence". other than trans people themselves. People simply reject the pronoun because it has been imposed, and it does not reflect reality as it is understood by the vast majority of people.

So does Dr Long advocate calling women, who don't fit into your female stereotypes, men?

Because that's what you are doing.

I note women have been accused of being both 'bitchy' & 'agressive'

Fascinating things patterns of controlling behaviour.
Very interesting.

Lang declined a demand

A demand? Asking you a question is a demand? Are you alright, love?

DecomposingComposers

I haven't called any posters men.
Please stop.

This whole thread is about disregarding people's identities. The trans women I know support women and are horrified by the abuse of women around the world. It seems that the rumours I've heard about this forum being more about attacking a minority rather than fighting againt the oppression of women are true. I'll leave you to your hate

You have popped in to have your prejudices confirmed; not to understand the issue as it is lived and felt by the people here. Nobody responds well to forced speech which goes against their instinct.

That you immediately classify as 'hate' people who profoundly disagree about this matter is part of your mind-set, not mine.

What I do hate, though - is people trying to impose their version of reality on me.

Its always interesting to observe males attempting to disrupt women discussing the impact of not being able to correctly identify some males.

So was this just a random observation then? You weren't relating it to this thread? So you saying that you are observing it on this thread, even though you posted that comment on this thread?

Don't see how I am misrepresenting you when I am commenting on what you wrote.

So you saying that you are observing it on this thread, even though you posted that comment on this thread

Should read "...saying that you aren't observing..."

That's how. If we can't name men as men then we can't name patterns of male violence, we can't name who is in control.

Its always about control....

Understanding control patterns both on an individual basis within relationships, online or within the wider context of patriachial structures.

Women need to recognise & name in order to resist control by males.