Use of trans identified male as opposed to transwoman.

[happydappy2]

MNHQ There has been much written recently about how the controlling of the words we use, is very misleading. Many women reject the word transwoman as it can be misunderstood. In light of this, would you reconsider yr guidelines that Trans Identified Male can not be used? It would seem a more factually accurate description of a human male who presents in a stereotypically female way. Thank you.

Well this has been fascinating, the overwhelming majority of posters firmly in favour of not using the term transwomen, as it can be misunderstood. Trans identified Male is much more accurate language. I wonder what MNHQ think?

So many posters have an issue with using transwoman

I'm astounded that you don't understand why that has become an issue.

Well this has been fascinating, the overwhelming majority of posters firmly in favour of not using the term transwomen, as it can be misunderstood. Trans identified Male is much more accurate language. I wonder what MNHQ think?

This was the language used by Karen Ingala Smith at the recent House of Commons meeting about the Women's Sector I think?

Maria Miller MP, Head of APPG Women & Equalities and who oversaw the Trans Inquiry was present.

In fact it was interesting to note how other language formations made it difficult for other representatives of Womens Sector as well as MPs to discuss matters of great importance.

It was a really clear demonstration of the importance of being able to use accurate (& civil) language.

Fwiw, some of you are men. Some of you are women. All of you demanding women use feminine pronouns and words for men, be it because you are suddenly very concerned about 'dictionary definitions' or because you are 'GC but women refusing to use female word for men has changed your mind about their rights to single sex anything' are goady AF and displaying some of the most overt co-ercion techniques I have seen here in a while. But you crack on, whoever you are behind the typing. I think the disruption on the thread has ably proved how the language is being used, so I'm going to suggest anyone who doesn't especially want to waste their time today do something else.

I find the use of boundary violation fascinating as it indicates that there are boundaries to your feminism and does not take into acount intersectional feminism which seeks to break down such boundaries, and include all woman

Boundaries are the natural protective system of any healthy organism. Violation of boundaries is never positive or healthy.

All women are already included in feminism and always have been, whatever their race, creed or class. What unites them, in spite of differences, is that they are all women.

Man who identifies as transgender.

Factual, inoffensive and descriptive. Also being used increasingly widely in the press as the wokeness has worn ever thinner.

This is an easier descriptor to adapt for those who identify as dogs/aliens/children/whatever. The important fact is first. When this doesn't happen, reports are very confusing.

www.thoughtco.com/mental-lexicon-psycholinguistics-1691379

I stopped courtesy descriptors when I saw the space being forced between trans and woman and saw it for the obvious attempt to foil search engines and data collection it is. As mentioned repeatedly above, it confuses the issue when trying to discuss women's rights or statistics. You need a crystal ball to keep up with current gender chimera dialect and that is inapplicable.

Look at these two articles from the Telegraph, one factual and straight forward reporting, the other a nonsense as it ties itself in knots trying to avoid saying the word man. Ridiculous and appallingly negating the rights of the women (made victims by this man's criminal behaviour) to have their horrific story told so that others may be protected from the same and justice sought.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/07/dutch-man-69-identifies-20-years-younger-launches-legal-battle/
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/06/transgender-person-accused-rape-remanded-female-prison-sexually/

Facts matter. Factual reporting matters.

www.christiandailyreporter.com/trans-gamestop-rage.html
pjmedia.com/trending/biological-man-identifies-as-a-woman-but-plays-a-man-as-the-first-transgender-lead-in-u-s-opera/
www.dailysignal.com/2019/04/02/we-are-manufacturing-transgender-kids-says-man-who-once-identified-as-woman
www.acsh.org/news/2018/10/16/should-men-who-identify-women-compete-womens-sports-13518
womenarehuman.com/male-trans-rights-activist-who-identifies-as-woman-rapes-woman-cherno-biko/
noqreport.com/2018/10/15/man-identifies-transgender-woman-wins-cycling-world-championships/

If anyone has any doubt about the importance of factual reporting and allowing balanced debate then this article is essential reading.
dailycaller.com/2019/05/30/columbia-journalism-review-transgender-athlete-debate/
It is standard journalistic practice to make a good faith effort to reach out to people on all sides of a given story, and to include critical voices and opinions in order to give readers a balanced and informed understanding of the matter.

Are you alright, love?

Yes. All the LOLs.

goady AF and displaying some of the most overt co-ercion techniques I have seen here in a while

It is very important to recognise patterns of behaviour.

Some of these, such as narcissistic control patterns etc can be demonstrated by people of both sexes and any gender identity (should they have one)

why don't we all stop using the same tactics thst we always use in these threads. or are we all just bored and it's to much fun not to play these games

Have to say I'm not using any tactics, even if you are; or if you clearly view it as a game.

Justhadathought often some people tell you exactly what they're doing & their intentions.

Its important to listen and believe them.

FloralBunting

The disruption on the thread occurs when posters start accusing those who have a different opinion as being men?

Why is that necessary? Someone disagrees with you then surely you debate the issue? Why is it always "you're a man"? How does that add anything to the discussion? Anyone who responds to that then gets accused of derailing. If you don't want people to respond to these comments then maybe people shouldn't make them in the first place?

Shock horror - women are allowed to disagree with you - that doesn't make us men.

DecomposingComposers

Repeating your false allegations adfinitum & ignoring responses are the very definition of derailment.

I stopped courtesy descriptors when I saw the space being forced between trans and woman and saw it for the obvious attempt to foil search engines and data collection it is. As mentioned repeatedly above, it confuses the issue when trying to discuss women's rights or statistics. You need a crystal ball to keep up with current gender chimera dialect and that is inapplicable.

Look at these two articles from the Telegraph, one factual and straight forward reporting, the other a nonsense as it ties itself in knots trying to avoid saying the word man. Ridiculous and appallingly negating the rights of the women (made victims by this man's criminal behaviour) to have their horrific story told so that others may be protected from the same and justice sought.

Facts & accurate reporting, especially of male violence, is viatlly important.

It has substantial impact on managing violent crime perpetrated by men against women & children especially.

My goodness, are you always so hostile to those with a different opinion? Why not engage with what’s being said rather than resort to petty ‘you’re a narcissist, you’re a man, you want to silence woman’ blah blah blah.

It’s a debate if you can’t engage without getting your knickers in a twist, why are you here?

Just because you’re in your own little ‘safe space’ of the FWR board, doesn’t mean you won’t get opposing opinions and if you can’t even back up your talk here, then it’s quite clear the debate isn’t going anywhere.

I have question for you, back to the subject.

Is language important? Are dictionary definitions important? Should we try to preserve definitions for what they are, and use words according to their meanings?

Or does language not matter, if there’s people who think they know better?

Should we change language when it suits our agendas?

For those who missed it. Dictionary definitions:

Transwoman - noun.
a male-to-female transsexual

Transsexual - noun.
a person who emotionally and psychologically feels that they belong to the opposite sex.

Woman - noun.
Adult Human female

I don’t see how the definition of transwoman, in any way imposes on the definition of woman. So please explain to me why you think it does?

Except they are not false allegations - I am merely repeating what you said.

That you have responded by saying that you said something different to what you actually wrote is disingenuous.

It's a pattern of behaviour exhibited on here all the time. Anyone who disagrees with you is dismissed as being a man because that means that you can justify ignoring any points they make.

If your argument was strong enough you would be able to debate them without resorting to personal comments and insults.

DecomposingComposers, on the off chance it's a reading comprehension problem, I didn't call you a man in my post. I said some people posting are men, and some people posting are women. I have no way to confirm who is who, and I don't care very much in this instance.

Basically, whoever is pressing women to use language in a way they do not want, be they man or woman, is a coercive unpleasant sort.

Sorry Earlywalker my last post was in answer to ROwan, not you.

Earlywalker, the argument is laid out in Barrackers article which you said you read. What did you understand it to mean?

I didn't call you a man in my post. I said some people posting are men, and some people posting are women.

I didn't say that you specifically calked anyone a man, but other posters do.

You said dome on here are men, and some are women - but how do you know? Maybe all posters on here are women? Why do you think that some are men?

It's a pattern of behaviour exhibited on here all the time. Anyone who disagrees with you is dismissed as being a man because that means that you can justify ignoring any points they make.

No, stop making false accusations.

Often false allegations/accusations are projections / admissions.

This is a pattern of behaviour which many women recognise.

,Basically, whoever is pressing women to use language in a way they do not want, be they man or woman, is a coercive unpleasant sort.

In all cases? So if someone wants to use the term cis you have no wish to stop them then? Because, after all, if you tried to stop them that would be coercive presumably?

Barrackers article refers mainly to pronoun use. Turning a transwoman into a ‘woman’ so to speak. I can understand the Feminist viewpoint for not referring to a transwoman as a woman completely. However, refusing to name them as a transwoman is completely different.

I don’t see how the definition of transwoman, in any way imposes on the definition of woman. So please explain to me why you think it does?

For goodness sake! You've had it explained in multiple different ways and in multiple different styles, by multiple people. If you don't get it now, you never will.

I'd give up at this point if I were you.