Feminism and breastfeeding

[SnuggyBuggy]

Just curious as to people's opinions here as I haven't seen these two things discussed a lot. Is promoting breastfeeding compatible with being a feminist?

Sorry cross post - mine was to Ineedacupoftea!

Snuggy that sounds awful and really inappropriate. There is relatively new charity with the goal to increase milk bank capacity specifically for NICU babies. humanmilkfoundation.org

@BertrandRussell, time, DDs subsequent good health and BF getting easier were all good healers.

To be fair at the time it seemed anti FF and aggressive but my memories of that time are a bit off if that makes sense, I've definitely got some false memories of that period and I do wonder if I'd be able to look at the same leaflets a lot more objectively now.

To be fair in my case postnatal wasn't too bad and once DD was off NICU they helped a lot with latch and advised on lanolin. I think maternity hospitals can be a bit crap with mums that have to be separated from sick babies. NICU is probably never going to be a positive experience for anyone.

Also, maybe a stupid question but what is follow on milk for and why is this exempt from the advertising ban? I thought 1 year olds could just drink full fat cows milk.

Follow on milk is a marketing con; nothing else. Formula companies love to make it because it's exempt from the ban on advertising infant formula and lets them saturate the market with advertising and promotions for their brand (often featuring babies that are visibly younger than 6 months: another ethics breach). Technically, it's exempt from the advertising ban because it's not an infant formula at all, just a drink aimed at weaned babies and toddlers. It's subject to be same (very lax) regulations as things like baby porridge.

It's also cheaper to produce because they don't have to stick to the very strict regulations for infant formula ingredients, which means many follow-on milks are unsuitably high in iron, protein or sugars. Some follow-on milks are downright unsuitable to feed to a 6 month old who is just starting on solids and relies 99% on milk as a food source, but they can still be sold for that purpose. Many parents buy them assuming they're fine and safe to feed their babies, but it's not always the case.

It's far better and safer, in the absence of breastmilk, to use infant (stage 1) formula from birth to 12 months, and then switch to full fat cow's milk.

Ineed I do think, on reflection due to this thread, that my DH was atypical in his reaction due to a rather unconventional upbringing, and a wonderful mum who deliberately taught him DIY, sewing, cooking, decorating etc from a young age.

My DH thought my role was just as important, that my sleep and rest was also essential so that I could look after the baby during the day in a safe way, without dropping off or struggling through. I have never understood the argument that the ‘working father’s’ sleep was more important and the mother should get up all night on her own.

Totally agree. What I find depressing is the number of women pushing this argument.

For us, it's not just about my role looking after the baby on mat leave but more generally that we both agreed that whoever was at home Vs working (we did shared parental leave so both did both) mattered. Just because you're looking after a baby doesn't mean your wellbeing isn't important. Neither of us would have wanted for one of us to be exhausted and the other just fine when we could both take some of the strain.

So basically- and once again i’m saying this in the context of the thread - you think that the narrative that mothers who ff for whatever reason are constantly shamed and criticised for it may be fuelled at least in part by false memory and (entirely unjustified) maternal guilt?

Neither of us would have wanted for one of us to be exhausted and the other just fine when we could both take some of the strain.

This is it for me.

Thanks another to be fair to DH he really struggled after DD2 was born, and is generally a very good Dad, but that ended up being my problem. Wish he'd gone to the gp rather than complaining that already stretched maternity services don't centre the menz, really. Promotion of that message would be good alongside the getting dads to be better at supporting new mums....

My main concerns regarding breastfeeding as a feminist is the pressure on women to do it discretely or in private because of how male society has sexualised our breasts. There were some interesting experiments done in the US where a woman sat on a bench in a public space with a very revealing top on without comment and then a breastfeeding mum sat there with less flesh on display and several people came over and told her she should be doing it in private.

We also had friends where the mum would always go to another room to breastfeed which excluded her from the group. Her husband would also stand in front of her as a shield if she ever had to do it in public.

Feminism for me is about expanding the choices for women but the idea that BF has to be restrictive is wrong to me. The dynamic with your partner is just as important. How involved they are between feeds. Do you become the default comforter, always handed the baby because the boob will stop the baby crying even if they are not hungry.

I just talked to my DH about this thread and why he did the things he did.

My husband is autistic, so that factors in to his answer I think: ‘ I applied logic, mathematics and concluded that the fair and equal thing to do would be get up at least half the night ‘.

Simply really!

It’s quite matter of fact and very logic based, that’s pretty much how he addresses most decisions. It can annoy other people, but I find it refreshing :)

I don't think it's just false memory. I'm not suggesting anyone wants people to deliberately shame FF women in hospital or in the community but the emotions women in situations worse than mine have are very real.

I too know someone who had to FF because her premature baby couldn't latch and she couldn't pump much. She struggled big time being the only one with a bottle at groups. I feel women like this are caught in the crossfire of well intentioned promotion and it can be pretty devastating.

There were some interesting experiments done in the US where a woman sat on a bench in a public space with a very revealing top on without comment and then a breastfeeding mum sat there with less flesh on display and several people came over and told her she should be doing it in private.

Interesting. Breastfeeding centres women and children and NOT men. Patriarchy constantly reinforces the message that men matter most and should be centred in all things. I think you could argue that sexualised breasts centre men.

Since feminism is supposed to centre women I think that it could be argued that bf is therefore feminist. But actually what is more feminist is women being supported (with evidence and help) in their own choice about how to feed their baby without censure from any source, and allowing women to decide what is the best risk benefit equation for their own baby around feeding.

Breastfeeding + a phone + apps certainly has allowed me to engage in feminist debate as I generally type while attached.

So yes it's feminist

The only one with a bottle at a babygroup! @SnuggyBuggy I'm so astonished at that. I have almost always been the only person breastfeeding at groups. With my first I was the only person in my (very rural, fairly economically deprived) area. I was told off for breastfeeding at a baby group: not the time or the place apparently. Every other mum I saw was of the opinion that I should "just give a bottle" or was really taken aback that I was "bothering". HVs told me to give a bottle so the baby would sleep. I didn't know a single other breastfeeding woman in my area for the first six months. I hear loads about the pressure to breastfeed but I think the social pressure to ff is far greater. I'm sure my experience can't be unusual. Surely not everyone lives in an exclusively middle class bubble with everyone boobing about? Most women formula feed. Where are they all on here?
.

I think it's very bubble based. I've actually never had any negative comments or reactions at all to BF in public and the mums in my immediate group say similar. I was also quite lucky with my HV and didn't realize until reading up on said issues that they get so little training in BF. I reckon mine must have been talking from her own experience feeding her DC.

I think good BF promotion and support should aim to empower women to BF despite being in a bubble where it isn't normal.

It's absolutely bubble based, and I'd put MN firmly in the BF bubble. I believe the majority on MN BF, though I don't know the true numbers.

Certainly if anyone starts suggesting formula on here as a solution they get shouted down (unless it's clear the poster is seriously struggling with BF/on her knees/struggling to express etc) whereas on other parenting websites it seems much more half and half or more bottle focused.

“She struggled big time being the only one with a bottle at groups.“

I do wonder- and I know I am risking accusations of denying other’s experiences here- whether this is another “perception”? That was how she felt rather than that was actually what happened? Because apart from anything else, statistically that is really unlikely.......

I don't think it is that unlikely - as said you tend to either live in a social BF "bubble" or bottlefeeding "bubble".

My DS had cleft palate and so couldn't breastfeed - I was often the only one with a bottle at groups and I felt particularly annoyed about it because it was expressed milk for the first 9 months. I kind of wanted to tell everyone this but I realised that was a but crazy lady.