Feminism and breastfeeding

[SnuggyBuggy]

Just curious as to people's opinions here as I haven't seen these two things discussed a lot. Is promoting breastfeeding compatible with being a feminist?

It's impossible to overlook the awful things formula companies have done in the world.

Yep, unicef estimates that around 1 million deaths per year are caused by formula use. They do some pretty unethical stuff here too, but in the developing world or ‘new markets’ as they would call them it is the difference between life and death. I also felt that there was no way I’d be giving my money to such companies. I remember someone who worked for a formula company saying on one of the threads that the breastfeeding rate among the staff was 100%.

unicef estimates that around 1 million deaths per year are caused by formula use

Oh my god. I had no idea it was that high. That is horrible.

Much of my breastfeeding supporter work isn't breastfeeding problems. It's that breastfeeding is totally invisible. Society teaches women to feel guilty for sitting down and relaxing - breastfeeding a tiny baby does force us to do that. So many times I hear that women want to quit because cluster feeding makes cooking tea hard, or they can't nap when baby does (and I'm talking brand new babies here) because they need to do school runs or housework. The fact that pregnancy, birth and lactation are seen as inconveniences that get in the way of real life is a massive problem and in my opinion the main difficulty with feminism / being a woman in a capitalist society.

Yes, I’ve seen this, too. Women feeling guilty that they aren’t entertaining the in-laws (who’ve come to ‘help’), that they aren’t looking after their older children in the same way, that they’re not cooking healthy meals, that the place is a mess when their husband comes home. Often feeling too guilty to pay someone (another women, obvs) to help them with these chores temporarily.

Of course, at that point bottle feeding makes a lot of sense. You can get someone else to do it (people are much happier to feed a baby than clean the kitchen), you can even bottle-prop, you can stop worrying about how much the baby is getting. You may think (though I’ve not seen any decent evidence) that the baby will sleep for longer, and you’ll get more rest. And all of this is just to enable the new mum to carry on doing all the drudge work at home. It’s so topsy turvy.

Not exactly as liberating as it may seem

SpartacusAutisticusAHF thank you!

Interesting
Indeed. It's heartbreaking to read so many threads on here written by women with newborns trying to do it all

Jessica if you can watch the film, Tigers, it's horrific. Think you can stream it from zee5.

In several other cultures women are sent to bed for 40 days to rest and establish BF. I don't think that would easily translate to the UK with many not having close family nearby but we could at least look to it as an example of how we expect too much from postpartum women.

Worth remembering also that for many women 40 days in bed post partum would mean not eating......

I hesitate to put another cat amongst the pigeons in relation to the U.K. experience, but I have not ever come across another culture that puts such emphasis on “my little family” as the U.K, maybe even specifically England. Mumsnet is full of threads about how to keep the wider family at a distance post partum. I can’t imagine people from many other cultures discussing whether 2 or 4 weeks is the best age to introduce the baby to its family!

I suppose it depends on how helpful the wider family would be. Again I don't think it's ever as simple as transplanting a tradition from one culture to another. This one probably wouldn't translate well.

Personally I'd always respect a post partum woman who didn't feel up to visitors. I think if you can't be selfish in the immediate post partum period when can you be? I dont think you can be a good grandparent/aunt/uncle to a newborn while not respecting the mother.

“Personally I'd always respect a post partum woman who didn't feel up to visitors.”

Of course. I think what I am saying is that we have a cultural expectation that people should keep away. And we also have a culture where bf rates are incredibly low and pnd is high. I’m not, of course, saying that correlation is causation- but it’s worth considering. We can’t think it’s a good idea for women to stay In bed for 40 days recovering from the birth and establishing bf but also think that family and friends should stay away.

I do think that there's a discussion to be had about the threads where posters are very much "no point in my DH helping with the baby at night because he doesn't have boobs". It does mean that by the time the baby is weaned, the couple are already in a particular dynamic.

I also have some discomfort with attachment parenting - where men like Sears are basically telling women that their place is in the home. Sure, they use the language of "parenting" but it seems pretty clear to me that they mean mothering.

“It does mean that by the time the baby is weaned, the couple are already in a particular dynamic.“
Particularly in a society that values work outside the home more than work in it. In an ideal world, looking after a baby would have the same status as any other job.

I think all we can take from the 40 day thing in the UK is not to expect a woman to be back up and cleaning after a week. It's OK to feel a bit floored and not your best after having a baby.

Also given we have a FF culture in the UK extended family are often the ones peddling the BF myths in any case. If mum isn't very condifdent BF is going well this can make a big difference. Anecdotally (I accept this makes it worthless) it seems like those with extended family around them are more likely to FF with the anyone can feed the baby logic. It would be interesting to see if any statistics have been taken here.

From a feminist perspective I see women feeling able to advocate for who they do and don't want around them post partum as a positive.

I breastfed DD for 18 months, did pretty much 100% of the night waking during that time. And as Settlers says.. this set a precedent and I still do. Mainly because DD only wants me and loses her mind if DH tried to settle her (she's almost 3).

Expecting number 2 soon and considering some mix feeding so I can share some nightfeeds (I know you can express but I found it a massive pain in the arse and DD refused a bottle anyway from about 12 weeks).

BF was (overall) the right way to go for me but I am a bit uncomfortable about the way it is (from what I have heard) pushed so hard by healthcare professionals. I think the feeding methods should both be presented with the risks (pros and cons) of both. Mother's choice should be respected and not further commented on, unfortunately I think a lot of judgement does go on no matter what you choose.
Everyone seems to have an opinion on how women should or should not use their bodies.

I think there is an issue with postpartum recovery. I had a very long labour with DD, hadn't slept or eaten for a couple of days. DH then goes home for a good night's sleep while I'm at hospital trying to deal with brand new baby on my own. I'm not sure what the solution is though. I guess help from extended family depends very much on the family. My mum was great, she was a bf pro (8 years experience - 4 babies) and she was extremely insistent that I rest as much as possible. I found it hard to have other people around though, especially when trying to establish bfing. MIL on the other hand just wanted to hold DD and didn't even want to give her back when she needed feeding. That was stressful!

Just seen an interesting tweet and link about breastfeeding which really reframes attitudes:

amp.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/breastfeeding-is-worth-3-6-billion-to-the-economy-says-researcher-20190607-p51vje.html?__twitter_impression=true
Breastfeeding is worth $3.6 billion to the economy, says researcher

Each year, Australians work for free to produce 40 million litres of a superfood. Rich in antibodies, it is associated with lower rates of infection and disease, as well as increased immunity.

So, should breastmilk be counted in our national food statistics?

This is the question being asked by Australian National University researcher Dr Julie Smith, who has been studying the economics of breastfeeding for more than 20 years. She estimates the value of breastfeeding in Australia is $3.6 billion.

By quantifying the scale and value of breastmilk being produced in Australia, Dr Smith, who is presenting her research at the Public Health Association Conference in Melbourne this week, hopes it will be easier for policymakers to understand its significance.

As I understand it from the twitter thread, this isn't original thought.

Maria Hennessy @ maritahennessey
Norway counts breastmilk as part of its national food production. "It's not that they value the product so much, but that they value the whole package."

We need to think more like this in Ireland-instead of propping up the BMS industry we should be supporting women & families

Its an interesting idea.

Psychologically it might help that idea that women can't sit down and 'do nothing' if they are breastfeeding.

I wonder if the reason quite a lot of women feel unable to cope with visitors is because they feel so judged. I can remember feeling quite stressed about people coming because I felt the house was a bit of a kip. Both my mil and smil are very chilled out about housework so I didn't feel particular pressure from them but I did from my own mum a bit. And just society in general. Obviously I felt that the responsibility of keeping the house tidy was all mine even after an emcs and enormous difficulties establishing bf. I can recall being a bit frantic about tidying up for the HV coming in particular. She was DEFINITELY judging me!

I think I so desperately wanted to be "good" at being a mum and that was (...is...) all tied up in my head was all this stuff about being tidy, thin, in control, routine, working FT, sleeping, proper food, educated, calm discipline, sleeping, routine, make up on, hair dyed, reading, sleeping, informed, routine, no telly, being outdoors, lots of classes, routine, sleeping. All of it was all my responsibility. I couldn't fail at any of these things because I would be failing at being a mum.

Breastfeeding is a weird thing in the UK because although it's what "good" mums do it often puts the kibosh on being able to fulfill your "duty" to comply with what society is telling us a good mum looks like.

Formula is produced by several different companies, not all of which have tried to peddle it to developing countries- the Nestle scandal was disgusting, and I am not minimising it at all, but the notion that all formula companies are evil is just another way to beat women for making a choice about how to feed their baby. Although that was all horrific and money driven, AIDS can be passed through breastfeeding, does this make it still the best option, or is there something that could be done to protect these mums and babies? Another debate for another day for sure, but unfortunately it isn't always as black and white that breastfeeding is best. If there were opportunities to increase access to fresh water, provide formula for free etc (a pipe dream sadly), would this arguably actually save lives?

Anyway, I see why the poster got defensive earlier in the thread, the questioning didn't feel like it was genuinely inquisitive, but more trying to prove or make out that the poster was wrong. Women are minimised enough in healthcare, we don't need to be doing it to eachother!

Education is important, and teaching about lactation in schools would be excellent. Post birth though there needs to be more support on how to safely prepare formula if someone has made their mind up (as I believe that a woman has every right to without guilt, bit agree it should be following facts and support); then isn't it better they do it safely? I was offered nothing and just had it referred to as artificial feeding and to Google it even though they acknowledged my milk hadn't come through and my baby would starve otherwise. As mentioned up thread, I did want to BF and the support was excellent, why can't the same be offered to all mothers? It is the babies who suffer if formula isn't prepared safely, and similarly if a mother is so stressed etc by breastfeeding that they are too exhausted etc to engage in other aspects of motherhood.

For me feminism in relation to breastfeeding is arming everyone with the facts, offering effective support, but also empowering women to make choices over their bodies and for their baby. Breastfeeding should be widely accepted by society and better support; but on the flip side of that formula feeding mums shouldn't be made to feel guilty or inferior; a balancing act.

Sandy the only formula company I know of that doesn’t engage (and we are talking still, not in the 80s) in very unethical practices in the developing world are Kendamil, I think. Because they are a smaller owned U.K. company that haven’t been around too long. All the other brands are owned by two or three large parent companies (nestle/Danone) still aggressively market and they also add and take away ingredients depending on the ‘market’ for instance in some countries they will add sugar to formula if they can get away with it, and in others they will label it sugar free ‘for health benefits’. They are all shits, and no I don’t think we can silence people from saying this best might make some women here feel bad. It’s like saying we can’t talk about unethical clothing because most U.K. women buy fast fashion. Plus parents deserve better here too, there’s a lot they do in the U.K. that’s really unethical. And unfortunately our government is on the side of big business so they can get away with it. I’ve posted below one lecture which is very interesting if you get the time to watch it.

www.babymilkaction.org/

www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/01/nestle-under-fire-for-marketing-claims-on-baby-milk-formulas

m.youtube.com/watch?v=9wRHoI1cMFM&time_continue=467

Great post Tiny particularly this:

They are all shits, and no I don’t think we can silence people from saying this best might make some women here feel bad. It’s like saying we can’t talk about unethical clothing because most U.K. women buy fast fashion.

Too right, we're expected to shut up about the unethical practices of an industry that makes money off babies so as to be "nice" to those women who buy formula and are actually being ripped off by same industry. Formula production should be non profit in my opinion.

Yup, really good post Tiny. I’m not going to not talk about terrible unethical companies because it might make people feel bad.

Trying not to say anything that upsets anyone really holds us back in discussing this.

Also, maybe a stupid question but what is follow on milk for and why is this exempt from the advertising ban? I thought 1 year olds could just drink full fat cows milk.