Feminism and breastfeeding

[SnuggyBuggy]

Just curious as to people's opinions here as I haven't seen these two things discussed a lot. Is promoting breastfeeding compatible with being a feminist?

It seems to me that bodily autonomy gets thrown out here. I'm guessing most of the posters on here support the right to abortion to as late as possible, no questions asked.

I'm also guessing that some of you might object to the large warnings on cigarettes and alcohol on the basis of it's telling you women what to do (and frankly having seen the damage done by these I have no problem with these warnings being loud and clear)

Yet on feeding , women have to be educated; have to explain and justify their decision; consider whether they are normal. I just wonder, given it has been acknowledged on here that the benefits are marginal, why some of you feel the need to push bf so hard?

I'm still smiling btw at the risible suggestion I didn't make the connection that all mammals lactate. I've milked cows, both by machine and hand, and coaxed weakling lambs to suckle.

Oh for gods sake Lass could you stop incessantly making this thread about you?

Yes, education is important on any health issue. This is a health issue. Why the fuck anyone would have a problem with women making informed decisions is beyond me.

Nobody has said women should then ‘justify’ their decision.

I think the need for education is to counteract the advertising from formula companies which intentionally misleads people.

I also have some discomfort with attachment parenting - where men like Sears are basically telling women that their place is in the home. Sure, they use the language of "parenting" but it seems pretty clear to me that they mean mothering.

I get the discomfort at men saying this but what about women who decide it is the best option for them and who would prefer to be at home in the early years, don't want to use mass childcare and can't afford a nanny? If it's a free choice?

I am one woman who chose to stay at home, partly because breastfeeding was so wonderful for me and my children. Not only did I have a well paid job I could have gone back to, I was offered another well paid job when DD2 was under 1, and I largely turned it down because I wanted to carry on breastfeeding. There are penalties to this for me (pension, career progression) but I've enjoyed looking after my kids when little far more than any other job I've had. Of course not all women feel this way, and should be free to choose, the point is many do feel like me and I think we've traded women being stuck in the home in this country to women being forced into work at times when they'd prefer to stay home and breastfeed for longer. Work is in general not breastfeeding friendly. Not all women can pump. Businesses serious about supporting breastfeeding need to have workplace childcare. How many do, I wonder? And allow women to have breastfeeding breaks?

Too right, we're expected to shut up about the unethical practices of an industry that makes money off babies so as to be "nice" to those women who buy formula and are actually being ripped off by same industry

I think this is really important - because infant feeding is such an emotive issue it’s so difficult to have a “structural” level conversation about it as the reaction (and I include myself in this) tends to defending your own choices. But this defensiveness means we can’t get to the root of those choices and the status quo prevails.

I think that any breastfeeding education (however ‘pushy’ it feels, though I’ve never experienced any pushiness) is as nothing compared to the push against breastfeeding from broader societal pressures - those things we’ve mentioned up-thread, like the pressure to have a tidy house, to look presentable, to not sit around doing nothing, to let dad ‘have a go’, to move your baby to follow-on milk (and that’s a very well-funded pressure, too).

So, on balance, I think that women have their bodily autonomy infringed much more by all those societal pressures, than by one or two individual HVs or midwives around the time they give birth. Which is not excusing any sort of insensitive or pushy behaviour, but explaining why I feel it weighs relatively less in the balance of factors.

Good post interesting. I wonder what the relative amounts of money spent on formula promotion and breastfeeding support are. That would be interesting to know. Heads off to google......

Actually Jessica you did ask me to explain. And bore off with the "making it all about me" given you specifically asked me about the feeling sick aspect , as you had never come across it.

Seems education is indeed lacking.

It's a hard thing to compare because there arent any companies with a commercial interest in breastfeeding.

I think the pushy breastfeeding promotion should be aimed at wider society rather than women especially given the majority initial want to attempt to breastfeed.

@InterestingShipNames I definitely agree about societal pressures - especially for bf beyond the first few months; it feels like you might get a 12 week grace period but after that it should be business as usual, back to the woman’s work of cleaning, tending to husbands, bouncing back etc.

Actually Jessica you did ask me to explain

How many posts ago? We were done talking about you since you were so sensitive to anything said. We literally are not talking about you any longer. You have raised a particular comment said to you so many times! We get it! You know mammals lactate! God. It’s derailing to repeatedly do it.

Where does the pushy breastfeeding promotion happen? What does it look like?

So, on balance, I think that women have their bodily autonomy infringed much more by all those societal pressures

Absolutely agreed.

One thing I’d like to pick up on. Some comments regarding bf setting up a parenting situation where Mum always soothes or gets up at night... my DH and I took turns to physically get up, get the baby, change and then I would breastfeed. I know a lot of couples have an arrangement where the father sleeps through as he has to ‘get up for work’. My DH thought my role was just as important, that my sleep and rest was also essential so that I could look after the baby during the day in a safe way, without dropping off or struggling through. I have never understood the argument that the ‘working father’s’ sleep was more important and the mother should get up all night on her own. Often I would lie there, my DH would do everything but the feeding. I’d still be awake but less disturbed and lying in bed. It also meant that our baby was happy to have either parent attend to them at night, right through early childhood.

“Often I would lie there, my DH would do everything but the feeding. I’d still be awake but less disturbed and lying in bed”

One of the joys of co sleeping as a b feeder is that there is Nt anything else to do but the feeding!

"I just wonder, given it has been acknowledged on here that the benefits are marginal, why some of you feel the need to push bf so hard?"
Disagree, I think the majority of people on this thread acknowledge that breastfeeding has significant benefits.

Agree with lots of the other points raised.

"I think the pushy breastfeeding promotion should be aimed at wider society rather than women especially given the majority initial want to attempt to breastfeed."
Yes. Wider education and promotion of breastfeeding to the general public. But when it comes to one-to-one communication with mothers in the perinatal period, it should be about respecting their right to make an informed choice, giving them impartial information, and SUPPORTING them.

I think we can all agree that pressure = bad and support = good, and it's the support that is lacking.

Yes, some pushy breastfeeding promotion aimed at Dads would be great. You know, bring your wife a fucking drink when she's feeding your child rather than leave her dying of thirst. My DD1 brought me more drinks when I was bf DD2 than DH. He was a dick. He would, reluctantly get me a drink if I asked, and often then leave it on a table out of my reach. I am bitter. In my case I think he didn’t like how breastfeeding made me the centre of attention. Men are used to being centred, breastfeeding doesn't do that, it's why you get all the ridiculous "let's increase the woman's work by making her pump before her supply is even established so the dad can give a bottle"

I always think this is a really good resource but sadly I think this kind of support is not the norm and hv could have a pivotal role in getting this sort of support going www.human-milk.com/partners.html

For me it was being bombarded with leaflets about how FF increased the risk of multiple diseases when I had a newborn on NICU who had to have formula on a schedule when I felt she should have been BF on demand.

It was also the lack of information antenatally on FF which made it feel taboo and like we were doing something shameful. The fact that the majority of mums FF was irrelevant, I wasn't mixing with a large number of mums at that point. I was just ill and postpartum and gutted that I might not be able to breastfeed.

I'd rather see a push for more milk banks, for a look at NICU practices and awful postnatal wards. It's all well and good promoting something in words but it doesn't always translate to action.

Jessica Yes, that was my experience, too. DH picked up baby, brought her to me, helped me latch her on (in the early days), made sure I had water / snack, took her away, burped her, settled her (or not, settling was not easy). There’s lots to be done, but ‘I don’t have boobs’ is an easy way out for the men who would prefer not to get up in the night and aren’t prepared to overlook their own needs and wishes in order to support their wife and baby.

To be fair, men are socialised into thinking that getting up in the night is the woman’s job - the societal pressures also work on them, and they have to work hard to counter-act them.

Ineedacupoftea
Excellent point - men need to be educated about the benefits of breastfeeding and how to support a breastfeeding mother.
DH was excellent (waited on me hand and foot in the beginning ) but sadly (and as you know) there are many men who aren't

So to go back to the OP, you could say bf is feminist because it centres women rather than men.

“For me it was being bombarded with leaflets about how FF increased the risk of multiple diseases when I had a newborn on NICU who had to have formula on a schedule when I felt she should have been BF on demand”
OK- that sounds awful. I’m going to make an assumption here. If I’m wrong, then i’ll back off instantly. But I’m going to assume you wouldn’t have started this thread and given your own personal experience if you weren’t recovered and robust. Forgive me if I’m wrong. But were these leaflets actively anti formula? Were they NHS ones? When you say “bombarded”-do you mean you were given them by HCP? I presume the HCP helped you feed your baby in the way that was right for her?

InterestingShipNames

Yes, I got snacks and drinks when I needed to also. I wonder why my husband is like this to be honest! He had no Mum, she died when he was little. He had an awful father & stepMum, incredibly sexist and miserable arrangement there. I don’t think he ever learnt anywhere how to assist new Mums. He did have a grandfather, his mums dad, who was an incredible man and extremely attentive to his wife- who never got over her youngest child’s death. My DH told me he took her breakfast in bed every single morning, on a tray, nicely put together with different jams etc etc really sweet. I also was always feminist so maybe because we had lived together 10 years first and housework was always equal, it naturally extended to childcare.

I am actually close to tears reading about all your wonderful DHs. Mine was much better first time around. Second time he was a fucking dick. He also moaned about how the midwives never asked him how he was feeling (you know while they were looking at my c section scar and trying to figure out why it wasn't healing). He could not stand not being centred like a whiny toddler. The thing that upsets me the most is that DD1 was old enough to see this behaviour and remember it, so it might well put her off bf. I will have to deprogram her at some point.

For me it was being bombarded with leaflets about how FF increased the risk of multiple diseases when I had a newborn on NICU who had to have formula on a schedule when I felt she should have been BF on demand.

That’s really awful and insensitive. Why would they do that? Sorry that happened to you. I never got anything like this, but I wasn’t admitted, I had my baby and 2 hours after birth I went home!