Feminism and breastfeeding

[SnuggyBuggy]

Just curious as to people's opinions here as I haven't seen these two things discussed a lot. Is promoting breastfeeding compatible with being a feminist?

I suppose cows are the animals we think of because of the huge prevalence of the dairy industry.

Feelings of revulsion are important to acknowledge. They usually come from somewhere or if they need to be tackled in a sympathetic way rather than judged in the context of 'right and wrong'.

Phobias and anxieties are often not things that can be treated with a pill or someone saying 'just get on with it'. Nor people always respond to treatments such as counselling as successfully as we'd like.

Phobias and anxieties are deeply rooted and all too often misunderstood and treated with contempt - sometimes overtly but also sometimes unwittingly.

Addressing issues of that nature when it comes to breastfeeding are also very time limited in the window of opportunity someone has to consider them.

Tackling phobias and anxieties can often be a longer term almost chronic health condition.

I think being revolted by the idea of breast feeding is better looked at through this prism, with the impact of society on individuals as part of that on a practical level.

Re the 'milch cow' analogy, I wonder if the introduction of pumping has exacerbated that idea? In particular because it seems to be touted (maybe mostly in the US where maternity leave is often crap) as the solution for working mothers. Well, obviously it's a boon for some but it sounds like extra work on top of employment on top of babycare when not 'at work'.

I don’t feel particularly like a cow but I like cows and wouldn’t be offended by the idea, though wouldn’t be impressed if someone said to me I suppose because I’d question their motives.

When I was pregnant and contemplating birth I spent several hours one afternoon watching animal birth videos on YouTube and ended up watching animals feeding their young as well, it was funny, beautiful, fascinating, quite moving. I remember watching my cat feeding her kittens, or rather lying there while they squished themselves on top of her scrambling for the best spot and then settling down happily for their meals.

As a bit of a hippy at heart I’ve found pregnancy, birth and feeding my baby has made me feel connected to the natural cycle in a lovely way, especially giving birth in the spring surrounded by signs of birth and renewal all around. In that way I feel more grateful to be a woman and all it gives me, the chance to grow a baby and then feed her.

I’m not quite at the point of jacking in my job and moving to the hills to grow vegetables and open a small holding away from the rat race. But this time post pregnancy away from the fuss of my normal life has made me think of things very differently, which has caught me off guard, and feeding has contributed to that hugely because it’s made my purpose, for now, different.

(That was largely off topic and a self indulgent ramble, my apologies )

FWIW I did complain about feeling like a cow when expressing breast milk.
Never felt like that when actually breastfeeding my child.

I agree, i think the cow analogy is partly due to pumping/expressing, as we've all seen cows hooked up to those milking machines, and I certainly found pumping tedious and pretty fruitless tbh - most I ever got was 6oz after 1hr+.

@AnneLovesGilbert

I sort of get what you mean. I watched a load of nature documentaries (amongst other things ) when cluster feeding and specifically picked out ones on mammals. It made me think of DD not just as a baby but as a young mammal and I think it helped me feel less annoyed by her desire to be attached to me all the time.

Yes. I tried to switch into mammal mode. Someone said to me when I was pregnant that I may not know how to give birth but my “monkey” did, and I found that ridiculously helpful. And we found it easier to cope with the difficult times with babies if we thought of them as little animals acting on pure instinct rather than human creatures capable of rational thought but refusing to do it to frustrate us!

I've been thinking about this thread since it appeared.

Much of my breastfeeding supporter work isn't breastfeeding problems. It's that breastfeeding is totally invisible. Society teaches women to feel guilty for sitting down and relaxing - breastfeeding a tiny baby does force us to do that. So many times I hear that women want to quit because cluster feeding makes cooking tea hard, or they can't nap when baby does (and I'm talking brand new babies here) because they need to do school runs or housework. The fact that pregnancy, birth and lactation are seen as inconveniences that get in the way of real life is a massive problem and in my opinion the main difficulty with feminism / being a woman in a capitalist society.

Pumping or formula so dad can have a go at feeding - studies show this almost never works out that way. Anecdotally dads perhaps do the first few bottle feeds and then go back to work, leaving mum doing round the clock baby care.

Nursing aversion - just add it to the list of things that new mums are just expected to get over. C -section pain - when would a man have major abdominal surgery followed by fucking paracetamol? Bleeding nipples? Meh, you'll be reet. Exhausted and overwhelmed? Find time to express milk, and deal with all the extra work that requires, and you can have a break - or even better, clean the loo! - while your partner (what a hero!) feeds the baby.

The animal analogy works both ways. I remember a friend saying somewhat sanctimoniously "humans are the only mammal that wean their young before the baby is ready of its own accord."

I immediately blurted out "but you go walking. In the countryside. In spring. You must have noticed ewes literally head butting their older lambs off the teat. "

Society teaches women to feel guilty for sitting down and relaxing

Yes definitely. My DH has actually taught me to relax! I could never sit and do just one thing, when I had a baby I inhaled my food instead of eating properly, because I had so much to do I think anything for myself just became super rushed. Breastfeeding was the only time I stopped.

Someone said to me when I was pregnant that I may not know how to give birth but my “monkey” did, and I found that ridiculously helpful. And we found it easier to cope with the difficult times with babies if we thought of them as little animals acting on pure instinct rather than human creatures capable of rational thought but refusing to do it to frustrate us!

I love this. Thanks for sharing it.

The comparison to a 'milch cow' was interesting too. It indicated such a lack of irony in not realising that all mammals lactate and feed their young with their own uniquely nutritionally optimal breast milk. Why is it cow-like to feed one's own child with one's own milk?

Give me strength. Could you be any more patronising and dismissive?

I grew up on a farm. I've seen cows, pigs, cats, dogs, sheep and horses give birth and feed their young. We kept a Jersey cow for milk for our own use.

As for female animals giving birth - cats and dogs are almost almost fuss free. Sheep can have difficulty and cows and horses can have horrendous births if it is breach. Pigs, if distressed, sometimes eat their young.

Could you be any more patronising and dismissive?

Pot? Black?

Pot? Black?

I posted about my personal experiences and the poster I quoted has ridiculed me to the point of saying I am so stupid I don't realise mammals lactate.

That poster might lack sufficient empathy to understand why I felt like a milch cow. That does not entitle her to mock or deny my experience.

I have a friend who breast feeds because she wants to, but also because she refuses to give formula companies money as they do some pretty dodgy unethical promotion in developing countries. I think that’s a good point but I also wouldn’t want to say it to someone who felt they had to formula feed cos it would prob make them feel bad. However you could argue there that breasfeeding and not relying on formula is a small feminist act that in a means you aren’t funding formula companies to get their claws into communities where relying on formula is expensive and impractical.

Nope. I’m still seeing a black pot.

It is a sensitive issue but I'm actually now amused by posts like Nottonights

The idea I might not know about mammal lactation is hilarious. I've probably seen more animals being born and feeding their young than most of you (other than perhaps anyone who might be a vet) have had hot dinners. Josephine's post indicated such a lack of irony in not realising, well, much of anything tbh.

These accusations really are ridiculous and disingenuous

Really Josephine? And what point exactly were you trying to make with your "lack of irony" comment?

Expensive, impractical and certainly in countries where access to clean water is an issue, dangerous to the infants health.