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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Boundaries and Allies

408 replies

DancingRaven · 06/06/2019 07:44

I came across a post on Twitter which included what appears as a screenshot from a WhatsApp conversation with a gender critical ally. The image is attached for reference.

It is so disappointing to see this, are women's boundaries just amusing to everyone? How can we work together when our sex based rights are just 'politics'?

Boundaries and Allies
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36
Ineedacupofteadesperately · 07/06/2019 13:42

Yes, I agree with Tinsel, Barracker, Spartacus and the vast majority of women on here. I don't consent and my daughters don't consent to men in women's spaces. No men, no XY males, no-one with the material biological reality of a human male. No matter what they wear, do to their bodies or feel.

And I never quietly 'accommodated' TW in female spaces, no-one ever asked me. The answer would have been NO then and is NO now.

TinselAngel · 07/06/2019 13:56

Tinsel, I haven't read the transwidow threads but thank you for everything you're doing.

At this rate we'll end up with the only people reading the threads being us, and those of our ex's that monitor them Grin

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 07/06/2019 14:05

I read Tinsel and am appalled by the behaviour of so many of the exHs on there, it's such a valuable thread. Really provides a lot of sunlight to expose the lies we are increasingly supposed to believe.

ThePurportedDoctoress · 07/06/2019 14:13

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

TinselAngel · 07/06/2019 14:48

Yes, Doctoress, I feel that how the use of preferred pronouns affects trans widows is an important part of the debate. But it's a debate that is impossible to have without "misgendering" so I don't know where we can have it.

Outanabout · 07/06/2019 14:52

I think it would be quite reasonable for women to refer to their husbands, perhaps the fathers of their children, as 'he'. You're talking about YOUR OWN LIFE, FFS.

dancingcamper · 07/06/2019 14:58

Hi tinselangel, I suspect the transwidows thread has a lot of lurkers, I see it as a self-help support group, so wouldn't want to comment on it. Mainly because I don't want your experiences spoken over by people like me who haven't had that experience.

OhHolyJesus · 07/06/2019 15:13

And I never quietly 'accommodated' TW in female spaces, no-one ever asked me. The answer would have been NO then and is NO now.

This ^^

No one asked me or any collective of women, they just went ahead and women started having to avert their eyes, keep their heads down and do what they can not to draw attention to themselves.

In.Their.Own.Spaces.

TinselAngel · 07/06/2019 15:25

I wasn't particularly asking for other people to post on the trans widows thread, what I meant was if nobody reads it it will fail in its secondary purpose of raising awareness of our experiences.

Datun · 07/06/2019 16:24

TinselAngel

I'm glad you said all this, about people reading it.

The odd dichotomy with this entire issue is that everyone needs to know, but no one wants to draw fire.

Personally, I think it's an incredibly powerful thread. It serves the dual purpose of supporting women on it, and informing women who read it.

The experiences are undeniable and the causes of them, indefensible.

It's a very important thread.

EmpressLesbianInChair · 07/06/2019 16:29

At this rate we'll end up with the only people reading the threads being us, and those of our ex's that monitor them

Haven't - but will be!

Sevigny · 07/06/2019 17:02

Transwidows threads are extraordinarily powerful. Once I read those experiences it was impossible not to have cognitive dissonance over married males who identify as a transwoman.

dancingcamper · 07/06/2019 17:26

I have to say I am really impressed that this thread is still live.

I seem to have overstepped by calling a man a man,... I obviously need re-education.

Barracker · 07/06/2019 17:30

The odd dichotomy with this entire issue is that everyone needs to know, but no one wants to draw fire.

This, all the time.

I'm glad to have had my mind changed about the transwidows threads. I had stayed away because I saw them as support groups and I've avoided publicly drawing attention to them lest those women get shut down and lose that support.

TinselAngel · 07/06/2019 17:33

Well, there's no need to start proclaiming the threads existence from the rooftops to hostile ears, but on the other hand it doesn't have to be a state secret- we need people who will benefit from our support to find us.

TinselAngel · 07/06/2019 17:36

Certainly people who have already found FWR shouldn't feel it's so private that they can't read them.

pachyderm · 07/06/2019 17:37

Tinselangel just to let you know I read the Transwidows thread and it has profoundly influenced my view on the "brave and stunning" middle aged straight brigade. I can't ever read of a married father's "journey into womanhood" without thinking of those whose lives he has upended. We don't celebrate the 50 year old who dumps his wife for his secretary but it's supposedly wonderful when he starts wearing her tights, calling himself Barbara and making a lie of their marriage and family.

Datun · 07/06/2019 17:38

Got it tinsel.

If people start being sceptical about the entire issue of AGP, I direct them to your thread.

I wouldn't generally direct a TRA there, although I would probably mention it's existence. I certainly wouldn't put it on Twitter, not that I could!

ThePurportedDoctoress · 07/06/2019 17:39

I seem to have overstepped by calling a man a man,... I obviously need re-education

Same here. And yet no one seems to mind that I misgendered 'Cathy' in the Julie Bindel thread. Is there a list somewhere of individuals who are entitled to have their preferred pronouns enforced on this board?

Datun · 07/06/2019 17:41

Exactly pachyderm.

The other thing is, I defy anyone to read that thread and not get it in a heartbeat. I mean Really. Get. It.

OrchidInTheSun · 07/06/2019 17:41

I read it quite regularly Tinsel. It's heartbreaking at times but a sobering reminder of the real women and children who are left to pick up the pieces when men transition.

Agnieska's face from that little BBC short haunts me

JustAnotherWoman · 07/06/2019 17:41

I read the transwidow thread Tinsel I've quietly cheered when another woman finds the strength to move on with their life and continue to be desperately sad for EmilyHowardsWife I wish she would LTB.

I think the thread is really important and once read you can't ever see a TW with a wife or ex-wife in the wings as someone to be celebrated in any feminist group

TinselAngel · 07/06/2019 17:42

My strategy generally if I see somebody on another forum or social media who I think would benefit from joining the thread, I DM them.

If it's MN then I just post a link.

TinselAngel · 07/06/2019 17:44

Actually that's not right, I don't generally post a link, I say "come over to the trans widow thread on FWR" and let them use their own initiative to find it.

dancingcamper · 07/06/2019 17:44

Previously mumsnet have made the distinction between criminals and law abiding citizens. So I guess Cathy falls under dodgy enough.

I did at the time ask what level of criminality would make speaking the truth acceptable.