Boundaries and Allies

[DancingRaven]

I came across a post on Twitter which included what appears as a screenshot from a WhatsApp conversation with a gender critical ally. The image is attached for reference.

It is so disappointing to see this, are women's boundaries just amusing to everyone? How can we work together when our sex based rights are just 'politics'?

TinselAngel

You are a one woman saviour. Your compassion on that thread is only matched by your steely determination to adhere to reality.

I don't think it's an easy combination. To have tremendous empathy, depth, sympathy and humanity, whilst saying it like it is, unvarnished, but without fear or without producing fear.

It's a handhold of the highest order. Tremendous stuff.

Debbie, you "get" that your intrusion into women's loos causes problems for women. I hope you'd acknowledge that it does the same for girls. So why do you continue to do it? You know that you're not a woman. You know that the facilities are sex segregated for good reason. So why?

And how would you react if you were frogmarched out of the women's loos by a none-too-happy woman?

Debbie if toilets and female only space was just politics and no biggie then why do you insist on using them against women's consent? If it's no big deal and just a joke use the mens.

Debbie if toilets and female only space was just politics and no biggie then why do you insist on using them against women's consent? If it's no big deal and just a joke use the mens.

I wonder why you will never get an answer to that question?

Who draws it?

That is the thing that gets my goat the most. The utter entitlement that DH will make the decisions and then inform women. It comes up again and again. DH doesn't identify as as woman, DH doesn't see DH's self as anything so inferior.

Fascinating btw that HQ has managed to nip in here and delete anything that's women not being nice enough to male born people stomping all over their rights, but the creepy as fuck post from the incel male who was enjoying themselves one handed all over several threads has been left to stand, despite reporting.

There is a huge thing to draw between nice trans and nasty trans?

What is they, fucking five?

Nice trans, nasty trans? Are we now reduced to making dodgy value judgments about people to decide who gets special rights?
The line is drawn between male and female. Someone who wears a t-shirt proclaiming that they are male shouldn't have any trouble understanding this, surely.

Thanks for the flowers all. I worry I sound increasingly harsh and impatient on the trans widows thread, so it's good to know it's not coming across that way.

And I can't take all the credit, I've got a growing posse of helpers.

My deleted post above was probably a fair cop TBH. I was quite cross.

There's no line, if they are trans they are not women. I feel slightly sorry for the quiet old school transexuals causing no bother but fuck it it's our decision only women get to decide.

...and allow people to gloat that "we've been using the ladies for years and you never noticed lol" As if!

Does DH not know that the problem isn't trans. It is men.

The "old school transexuals" are also the perpetrators of much of the behaviour highlighted on the trans widows threads.

Every time I return to Twitter I see another example of a man ignoring women saying no, by suggesting loos perhaps don’t matter. My daughters feel fucking vulnerable in a public loo emptying their menstrual cups. I do too. It is not only Hayton. This is why we cannot rely on men to fight for women’s rights - it somehow gives them the erroneous impression that we give a fuck what they think.

We have two prominent transwomen platformed by the likes of @Glinner, one whose message speaks volumes as demonstrated, the other who continues to take the place of a woman on a female sports team.

I'm really angry about this blatant lack of regard for women whilst two transwomen who are apparently in allyship with us, being put above female voices

Really angry now

Ladies you're right

I withdraw my previous tiny amount of sympathy for old school transexuals they don't deserve it. I'll keep working on trying to overcome my female socialisation

The first time I read a similar thread to this, sometime last year I found the opinions of women like Barraker quite abrasive and harsh. Once again, though, the eloquence of posters like her, Datun and other MNers has clarified my thoughts and feelings on this and I no longer feel that way. A year later, and I stand beside them, agreeing wholeheartedly. How many girls and women must say no before that’s enough for men (however they identify) to understand they are not welcome? And if they had any respect at all they would understand the answer is one. If only one girl or woman says “no” that is enough, regardless of what that “no”is to. Toilets, changing rooms, prisons, hospital wards, women’s groups. As the MN saying goes, ”No” is a full sentence.

Apologies Barracker for mis-spelling your name

Posie's videocast on pronouns, boundaries, and allies this evening is worth a watch. Just saying.

DancingRaven who is the 'ally' on a women's sports team?

Kristina Harrison

Men on women's sports teams is something that just incenses me. Inexcusable.