Boundaries and Allies

[DancingRaven]

I came across a post on Twitter which included what appears as a screenshot from a WhatsApp conversation with a gender critical ally. The image is attached for reference.

It is so disappointing to see this, are women's boundaries just amusing to everyone? How can we work together when our sex based rights are just 'politics'?

I’m not sure what DH thinks will happen if DH is defiantly doing ther very thing DH wants to be seen to campaign against.Don’t do as I do do as I say? That’s basically what it boils down to.

Then DH has the bloody bare faced cheek to come on here acknowledging the issues but says that’s the argument they face? You forgot the but at the end of that sentence. DH you do not get to decide on what women should and shouldn’t accept. You are not a woman so it’s not up to you. You are dishonest at the very least, and that really is the very least.

If I ever come across you in a female only space I’ll tell you you’re not welcome.

If a transman looks convincingly male and wants to use male facilities, why shouldn't they? Men are really unlikely to feel at all threatened by a transman. If men do feel threatened by sharing facilities with transmen, then men can complain about it and campaign about it. We are women, concerned with the rights of women and girls.

I agree, but I've seen it used more than once as a response to "everyone just use the toilet for their sex". A lot of people still don't understand that it's not "trans people, stay away" it's "men (specifically) stay away from women"

I guess a broader question though would be "should passing full bearded transmen use female spaces if they want?" They are women after all, but certainly it'd be very upsetting to find Buck in your changing room. Anyway, it's not directly relevant to this thread, just picking up on an earlier post.

Transsexuals were quietly accommodated

Ahem.

When were women ever asked if they minded? They were quiet because males are a threat. They possibly froze with fear before legging it.

This is a huge assumption that they were 'accommodated'. It was thrust upon us without consideration or negotiation. Of course they were laughing at us.

Do check out the back end of this thread for consideration of how this affects trans widows
Stella O'Malley, Trans Kids: It's Time To Talk

Tinsel I remember that thread and how a male TS refused to even allow discussion about the needs of women/partners affected on here, FWR.

It was shocking.

for all you do to try to support & boost the voices of 'transwidows' & their children.

worth reading & considering from p19
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3430608-Stella-OMalley-Trans-Kids-Its-Time-To-Talk?pg=19

Thanks R0. Your support is appreciated as ever

I'm sure some AGPs do get a thrill out of discomforting people and forcing them to lie about reality. I've read a couple of accounts by AGP people who admit as much. Right now I know a young transwoman who goes around in leather skirts, tops drawn tightly over massive fake boobs, high heels... it's obvious that this person is revelling in the attention.

Is this thread still open?

Ah, I see it is. I went off down the rabbit hole of the other thread linked to last night. I was particularly struck by TinselAngel's remarks about the transwidow threads, about being isolated. I can't answer for other people, but having dipped into one of those threads once I backed off, and would certainly never have posted to it, as it felt too intrusive even reading it.

Please don't discourage people from reading the Trans Widows threads. That would bury our voices even further.

I can't answer for other people, but having dipped into one of those threads once I backed off, and would certainly never have posted to it, as it felt too intrusive even reading it.

Is the rest of FWR a welcoming & comfortable space where the women who post on 'transwidows' threads are able to share their knowledge, insight & experiences?

'Transwidows' threads seem a vitally important protected support space. However, as Tinsel often points out, the needs / celebration /prioritisation of some male TS on FWR threads represents a barrier & a containment of the voices of women whose families have been directly impacted by transgenderism.

TinselAngel I wasn't doing that, just trying to explain why I haven't ever engaged with those threads. I assumed, maybe wrongly, that the women posting there would want privacy to discuss such painful situations with each other, without other people butting in.

Well I've certainly had my eyes opened these last few days, naively believed we had allies but sadly it seems some really are foxes.

Thank you to the wonderful mumsnet posters who have eloquently and politely helped shift those scales

These threads always feel like they end up with me and R0, shouting into the void. Maybe after this one, those contributors to FWR and other feminist spaces who continue to laud transsexual "allies" as stunning and brave will start to wise the fuck up and give priority to the views of women.

Thanks for starting this thread DancingRaven.

I hope women are wising up, took me time but I got there so believe others can too. Thanks for your input, it's invaluable

I think women woke up ages ago but because we're programmed to be nice and kind we only spoke in our very close trustworthy circles about what we really thought about dh, and I'm sure many of us were Gaslighted in dm by the good dh.

Finally the truth is coming out and we're fed up of being nice to people who are laughing at us behind our backs and pretending to be an ally in public.

I'm just going to add my voice to Barracker and say that I DO NOT EVER consent to males in female spaces. I don't care if you think you're nice, that you think we won't notice, that you've got a piece of paper that says you're a woman, or if you've had your genitals removed. I DO NOT CONSENT, and like Barracker, I am telling my daughter that any man who rides over women's boundaries by encroaching on these spaces is dangerous.

Tinsel, I haven't read the transwidow threads but thank you for everything you're doing.

And yes, absolutely. In here, we need to be prioritising the women whose lives have been impacted by transgenderism. Not the males who identify as transgender.

I'm just going to add my voice to Barracker and say that I DO NOT EVER consent to males in female spaces. I don't care if you think you're nice

Well, that's the thing. If they're actually nice they'll understand all this & not use female spaces.

Yes Spartacus I think there's been movement even since this recent thread:

Debbie Hayton in the TES www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3582158-debbie-hayton-in-the-tes