Can we start an anti "nail" campaign?

[2rebecca]

As a GP who frequently washes her hands, allotment owner and instrument player I really hate the trend for women to have immaculate nails that cost a fortune, scratch people and mean women can't do anything useful. Where t f did this horrible trend come from and how do we give women back the use of their wonderful hands?

That is why women who conform are nasty to women why try not to.

Actually on this thread I think it is the other way round - certainly at the beginning with women being called shallow and plastic clones and then continuing with claims of ageing skin and the such like. Those derogatory comments were aimed by women who apparently don't conform, not at them.

To continue.

There are women who try to not to conform. Once you see what big business/the patriarchy is doing it’s impossible to unsee it. So some women go in like steamrollers trying to “convert” people. Some get ridiculously holier than though about it all. Some get smug and some get arrogant. Because women can be as vile-what with being people an’ all. And it suits the patriarchy for women to be at loggerheads and attacking each other. Because otherwise we would be attacking it and heaven knows what would happen then. Monstrous regiments and all that.

So yes of course women have preferences based on our own likes and tastes and backgrounds. Of course we do. But we are all also cogs in a machine. A machine designed specifically to maintain the status quo and make money for the fat cats. The more we spend to make ourselves conform the better. And the goal posts are always being moved. So we never quite get to a place where we’ve jumped through all the hoops. I would put money on by this time next year there will be posts worrying about not having time to get nails done before an interview, and will they think I’m a scruff.....

Is there a feminist version of mansplaining?

Flangeplaining?
No? Too far? Sorry

Erm.... I meant womanplaining and yes, it's right upthread lol

These threads always end up the same. It's the same as threads about sex, women do not like giving oral sex and any women who say that they actually like doing it are wrong and they are conditioned to think that way.

I hate the colour pink. Is that me rejecting patriarchy, or is it just me not liking pink?

I don’t like wearing dresses or heels, and don’t. Is that me rejecting the patriarchy or just not wearing things I don’t like?

I don’t cook and I hate to clean. Is that me rejecting the patriarchy or just refusing to spend time doing what I don’t enjoy?

I like having pretty nails. Is that me accepting the patriarchy or just liking the way they make my hands look?

I like to carry a nice handbag. Is that me accepting the patriarchy or just liking what I think is an attractive bag to carry my wallet and phone?

I do like jewelry too, is that me accepting the patriarchy or just me being attracted to shiny things, like a magpie?

I know why I do or don’t do these things, so it is interesting to me that some think every thing I like or don’t like must be a political statement of some kind (either rejecting or embracing the patriarchy) rather than me being a 40-year old woman who has figured out what I like, what I don’t like, and doesn’t give a crap what others think of me anymore.

LimeKiwi

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Being so dismissive to a carefully thought out post(which she was encouraged to do) doesn't fill you with glory either. Bertrand is right if you think of it as a whole and not in little parts that you might embrace or reject, be it hair,shaving,makeup, clothes or nails(which tbh I don't see as "big" as some of the others).

It doesn't mean that on an individual level, if you engage in these practices you are anti feminist or shallow, or womaning wrong or whatever. However, we shouldn't deny that as a whole the industries mentioned, the expectations, the social pressure aren't damaging and sometimes limiting to women as a class.

Is there a feminist version of mansplaining?

Of course feministplaining exists.

So no, the patriarchy is not an excuse for people being vile to each other. But it is an explanation. It’s more complicated than “women are bitchy” (The patriarchy likes us to think that about each other too!)

That is why women who conform are nasty to women why try not to

Not on this thread- quite the other way round. You might like to consider the patronising tone often adopted by women who don't conform towards those who do.

“Not on this thread- quite the other way round. You might like to consider the patronising tone often adopted by women who don't conform towards those who do”

I did. The words “smug” and “holier than thou” were used!

You might like to consider the patronising tone often adopted by women who don't conform towards those who do

Well said. It's ridiculous how many times women get called a man on here if they presumably aren't coming across womanly enough, or are spoken very patronisingly to if they have a different view.

But using the patriarchy as an excuse fails to explain how so many people manage to avoid all of the pressures apparently applied to us.

So, if we are being made to conform then how come so many of us don't? You cite the fashion industry of the patriarchy controlling women but is it? Look at how many different ways women can dress. We can dress in whatever way we like - Ulta feminine, masculine, androgenous, a mixture, we can do some or all of it. Men however don't have the same options. So, actually who is the more oppressed there?

I rarely wear dresses. Usually wear jeans and converse. Never wear make up and never get my nails done. So, how am I being oppressed or made to conform to an image of femininity outside of what I choose to look like?

Is anyone willing to admit that regardless of their personal choice, when looked at as a whole the beauty standards,the expectations put on women by society etc can be and are harmful to women and girls in general (whether this applies to on an individual level or not)?

"There are women who try to not to conform. Once you see what big business/the patriarchy is doing it’s impossible to unsee it"
This is the bit I have a problem with. Its the snide insinuation that these women feel somehow smarter than everyone else, they see things that other simple women don't see and therefore look down their nose at people. Believing in conspiracy theories at every level doesn't always make you smarter

I agree with a lot of it too. But it still doesn't explain for me why some posters positively brag about their green fingers and their prowess at making chocolate cake but give women who prefer other stereotypical activities such a hard time.

Look at how many different ways women can dress. We can dress in whatever way we like - Ulta feminine, masculine, androgenous, a mixture, we can do some or all of it. Men however don't have the same options. So, actually who is the more oppressed there?

Good point

Yes of course. But that wasn't what the op was about, or the couple of pages that followed.

^ That was to Sarcasm

@YourSarcasmIsDripping and yet at the same time the single biggest growth area in the beauty industry, and it has been this way for several years, is the pressure on men to adopt certain grooming practices.

Now if you were to suggest this in the round, both men and women, is an issue then I would concur to some extent. That said, do I want women to want to have autonomy about their actions and behaviours? Do I want the same for men? Absolutely, that is all fair minded people should want in this world. To dictate to anyone else how they should live their life, as the OP was balntantly doing is quite frankly a disgrace and very much self defeating to the feminist cause.

Is anyone willing to admit that regardless of their personal choice, when looked at as a whole the beauty standards,the expectations put on women by society etc can be and are harmful to women and girls in general (whether this applies to on an individual level or not)?

No, because it doesn't just apply to women and girls but to boys and men too and you can innoculate yourself and your children against it, as you can against all advertising.

Some of the stuff that is pushed by the beauty and fashion industries I find quite bizarre and would never do it myself but I wouldn't judge anyone who chooses to do it.

If it were the case that no woman who didn't have DD breasts or blonde hair or wore 6" stilletoes could get a job or such like then I would agree that you had a point. But that isn't the case. Women can be all shapes and sizes, wear make up or wear no make up etc and in the main it has no impact on your job prospects or life chances. No one is made to do any of this stuff, it is a choice.

No it wasn't,however the thread has moved on a bit and evolved, as it normally happens. And tbh there is a trend on threads like this (even when no insults are used) to deny that patriarchy exists, that beauty standards are harmful,that there is societal pressure etc. It doesn't happen/apply to me so it doesn't exist. I believe some posters do get frustrated/ a bit fed up when any and all discussion about this gets dismissed or derailed (even in more civilised and nicer formats) by the constant denial.