Can we start an anti "nail" campaign?

[2rebecca]

As a GP who frequently washes her hands, allotment owner and instrument player I really hate the trend for women to have immaculate nails that cost a fortune, scratch people and mean women can't do anything useful. Where t f did this horrible trend come from and how do we give women back the use of their wonderful hands?

Well said holdthedamndoor

I really believe that the 'patriarchy' has just become a shield that some women hide behind to try and excuse shitty behaviour.

Contraceptionismyfriend there definitely seems to be a trend of excusing women who display shitty behaviour, by attempting to blame anything else. Usually men and or the patriachy.

If a woman is horrible, saying it's the patriachy is painting her as a victim of it who just cant herself but be like that.

It infantilises women for a start. And excuses shitty behaviour. And then to keep accepting these women are feminists, is just wrong.

If men are shitty no one says 'ah well, itsvthe patriarchy.....what can you do, they cant really help it.....but they are still a feminist supporter'

Please do @BertrandRussell

Ok. Back in a bit.

Before someone does a quick 'bugs on nails' google search and outs me, those aren't actually my nails.

But, if I could be arsed and I wasn't stressed about the chemicals, they would be my nails exactly!

I've only ever painted my nails for fun, usually with my kid when he was young and all his mates. I know they would've loved to have caught a gnat on one of them too!

This thread is hilarious though. Women being 'nasty' to other women who they claim are being 'nasty' to them. Yay! Let's all get nasty!

@Holdthedamndoor thank you for being able to say exactly how I feel in such a well written and eloquent way.

I've often wondered why the likes of growing vegetables, baking, quilting, spinning, cats etc seem to get a free pass on here. Surely they're all performing femininity by playing to the caring/nurturing stereotype, and yet I have never seen a thread dissecting why we enjoy them or calling for the fall of the confectionery industry.

I really believe that the 'patriarchy' has just become a shield that some women hide behind to try and excuse shitty behaviour.

Yes, indeed. How does it even work - women blaming men for how women behave. Does that make women puppets, incapable of independent thought?

Don't blame the patriarchy for making shitty comments about another person - that is totally a reflection of your character and nothing else.

It doesn't excuse shitty behaviour but it is worth pointing out to women who think their feminism excuses them for treating other 'not my kind' of women unfairly and sneeringly that that kind of judgemental and moralising attitude is allied to patriarchy not anathema to it.

I agree. The issue for me is, if you are a shitty person you are a shitty person. Patriachy or not.

Plenty of men and women manage to not be horrible people because of it. If you are nasty and judgemental, that's what you are. Regardless. Therefore , the patriachy doesnt really come into it.

It is worth pointing out they are allied to it. But it's also worth pointing out that shitty behaviour and the patriachy dont go hand in hand, on an individual level. A society level, yes. But, you can live in a patriachy and still be a decent person.

The glorious irony about much that is said in terms of the patriarchy supposedly determining the behaviour of women is that narrative in itself, essentially suggesting women are puppets and have neither the power nor the ability to self determine issues such as nail growth, inadvertently furthers this cycle of thinking and is entirely detrimental to the empowerment of women.

There are some very real and impacting issues women need to gather behind to attempt to address, this nonsensical 'fluff' divides us and plays a role in preventing many of these key issues rising to greater prominence.

Let's pick our much needed fights wisely and not be afraid to stand strong in support of women who choose to live their life how they determine. Any suggestions contrary to this would indicate we aren't capable of doing this and as such would fall squarely in line with the repressive rhetoric that has pervaded over the years

Please forgive me if i’m teaching granny to suck eggs with what i’m going to say. The patriarchy isn’t just another word for men. It’s a so Israel system where most of the political and economic power, and control over social norms lies with men or with male dominated institutions- the Church,the Law, the City, parliament, name it, men control it, even now. This isn’t just in overt, practical terms, it’s also in the way we think and what we find acceptable. We all buy into it and are influenced by it-however much we try not to be. It restricts our choices- and that goes for men as well as women- they are stuck to the rails as much as women are. There is a pretty narrow band of what is acceptable for either sex-as you can see by what happens to people who step outside the norms. Using the patriarchy as an excuse for being crap to other people is never an excuse but it can be an explanation. We tend as a species to stick to what we know and keep to our place in the hierarchy. Women in particular are programmed to do this- which is why, for example, feminist women are often mocked and attacked by other women. The prospect of upheaval is terrifying and safety lies within the structures we know. Society spends a lot of time policing women and, often through the medium of fashion and the beauty industry, telling them what they should look like. They are always thinking up new things for us to conform to- the most recent appears to be something you can take to make your vagina taste nicer.....words fail me at this point.
So you have women defending themselves from unsettling other women trying to rock the system. They say things like “I do it for me” “Nobody tells me to how to dress”. But the patriarchy, in the form of the fashion and pharmaceutical industries do. That’s their job. It makes people angry when this is pointed out, so there are unseemly spats. That is why women who conform are nasty to women why try not to.
Coming up-why women who try not to conform are nasty to women who do conform.....

Bertrand I love how you put all that.

So you have women defending themselves from unsettling other women trying to rock the system. They say things like “I do it for me” “Nobody tells me to how to dress”. But the patriarchy, in the form of the fashion and pharmaceutical industries do. That’s their job. It makes people angry when this is pointed out, so there are unseemly spats

Oh, give over. It's like women can't think for themselves, or "not allowed" to think for themselves, that they've been brainwashed.
Never mind they LIKE something for themselves.
It's ridiculous.
Unseemly spats and "makes people angry. ffs lol.
No, you telling other women what they should like is what's wrong and makes you just as bad as the men who do it.
Women are allowed to like feminine things. For THEM.

The glorious irony about much that is said in terms of the patriarchy supposedly determining the behaviour of women is that narrative in itself, essentially suggesting women are puppets and have neither the power nor the ability to self determine issues such as nail growth, inadvertently furthers this cycle of thinking and is entirely detrimental to the empowerment of women.

This

Very well put @LimeKiwi

I really believe that the 'patriarchy' has just become a shield that some women hide behind to try and excuse shitty behaviour

Yes. Agreed. "It was the patriarchy wot made me do it"

Was that an example of Bertrand's thinking in practice?

Us wimmin are now considered told and should have known better than to think for ourselves.
burns knee length skirt I'm wearing and gets out covering up trousers in case the men think I'm getting my legs out for them and not myself

BertrandRussell

See the issue is that, at least with regards to nails, there is no standard that women are being held to. There's no pressure to do one thing or another so I don't see how anyone on this thread can really justify the shitty behaviour on that basis.

And even if the patriarchy are somehow forcing women into getting their nails done, how does that force some of the posters on here to make such snidey comments about women who do it? Some of whom claim to be ardent feminists, so one would imagine, are all too familiar with the concept of patriarchy and the pitfalls of judging other women in such disparaging ways.

After all, if feminists can't overcome the pressure to put other women down what hope is there for men?

When women say they enjoy something, I tend to believe them. Yes of course they may have been conditioned into feeling that way but, as you say, no choice is a truly free choice.
If you enjoy cooking that is surely just as much a product of your conditioning as a desire to paint your nails and yet one of these interests is treated with disdain by some women on here while the other is not.

LimeKiwi

Well said!

Is there a feminist version of mansplaining?

I love my short skirts. They're great for getting max vit D to my legs and coolest thing to wear in summer. I love pink and sequins and wear whatever makes me happy.

But, I totally accept that the 'happy' is partly influenced by the culture I live in. Doesn't stop me wearing these things but does keep my mind open.