A pleasant surprise

[APleasantSurprise]

NC for this as very outing.

I came across a number of Tweets from a user whose profile described him as a serving officer with the Met. This is the complaint I sent yesterday:

Jon Killen, a emergency response officer in the MPS and LGBT+ officer, is issuing Tweets that I consider misogynist. His Twitter account (@LDNResponseCop) clearly identifies him professionally, so he cannot argue that he's only offering personal opinions. I cannot think his social media presence is doing anything good for the Met. It seems highly unprofessional. Certainly I would have less confidence were I involved in an incident and had to deal with Jon Killen than I would in a generic officer. Please look at what he's saying - and the response from many LGBT Twitter users who find his Tweets offensive. The police must be seen to be impartial.

I got a call from an inspector this morning. He'd gone through the officer's Tweets and agreed with me. He said it wasn't a disciplinary matter as there were no personally offensive Tweets but that the Tweets definitely overstepped the bounds of what a serving police officer should be saying on social media. A conversation was in order and he would be talking to the officer soon.

Only a small step, but I was pleased the Met seems to have taken it seriously.

Sadly that hasn't been true for far too many women... being sexually assaulted, in prison, by a fellow inmate isn't comfortable! But you know that. You're choosing to be ignorant, smug and shallow!

None of these privileged wokesters give a crap about women like that. Much more interested in displaying their progressive credentials than acknowledging the reality of working-class women's lives. They no doubt think that these female prisoners got what they deserved for refusing to acknowledge that the penis assaulting them was female. People like this poster are the reason that the Labour party is being abandoned by droves of working-class voters and women.

I'm going to stick with observable material reality.
If reality upsets some people who really really wish it weren't so, I do feel pity for their plight.
Most of the time it doesn't matter, people are people after all and deserve to be treated with respect as a person. Sometimes when it comes to sensitive situations involving the sexed body, it serves the greatest good to stick with unambiguous reality.

We're feminists. Of course we understand that gender is not sex.

It's the method by which women, by virtue of their sex, are oppressed. So we reject gender, we don't think what a lovely smorgasbord of fun it is to fit people into it's boxes.

And we understand that no female space or service is single gender - its segregated on sex because men are not, ever, women, whatever they see as their gender, and they will always pose a risk to women.

Aside from just not wanting them around all the fucking time, which is equally valid.

Fairly sure “crazy mystic” would qualify as both ableist and religious hate speech if reported but ok.

Here we go. Hate speech is anything I don't like. Especially if it is true.

Nobdy has called you an idiot. I have called you ignorant... you are, of many issues. I have called you smug, explained in a previous post. And I have called you shallow, your word salad posts are evidence of that!

Can we assume you have been reporting us naty posters for being, well, nasty? That is the only way MNHQ know a post falls outside the rues. If you haven't the report button is at the top right of every post.

As Floral said, you'll get nowhere here with your male centred posturings...

Please, do report me to the relevant authorities for using the phrase 'crazy mystic'. I'd be delighted to engage in the court case for that one.

People like this poster are the reason that the Labour party is being abandoned by droves of working-class voters and women. Myself included. I am politically homeless after 30+ years of Labour voting, 15+ years of membership.

Me too floral

You’re so close to getting it! Gender is not sex and gender dysphoria does need medical intervention! In the case of trans people that means medically transitioning!!! The extent to which they choose to/are able to do that is very personal and depends on a range of medical and financial factors.

Isn't this transphobic? It's my understanding that suggesting gender dysphoria and any medical transition are requirements for being trans is now offensive.

Anyway gender dysphoria has been declassified by the WHO as a mental illness. That's not going to help people with the condition because the healthcare system is now under no obligation to provide them with treatment because their condition is no longer a condition.

Intersectional women does include all women - it describes the various interersecting oppressions faced by women, for example, BAME women may face oppression due to their race, in addition to that due to being born female.

Intersectional feminism does not include MEN. No matter how they feel in their heads. Transwomen are not women, so no, intersectional feminism does not include them. Except when it has been hijacked by transactivists, that is.

No form of feminism includes humans born with penises - although it may indirectly benefit them (for example, fighting all sex-role stereotypes, such as the "boys don't cry," "men shouldn't like caring roles" "men shouldn't show their feelings" type male stereotype).

Feminism is indeed here to combat toxic masculinity (boys don’t cry etc) and also gender essentialism (I personally think this is what toxic femininity is if I had to define it).

Is the tweet still up?

Feminism is the political movement to fight the oppression of those born female. It's in the name.

Transwomen are born, and socialised, male. No matter what feelings they have in their head. They are widening the bandwidth of what it means to be male - which is good thing - but they are not female. Or include in women's fight for liberation against oppression.

Transactivism is toxic masculinity. With added gaslighting.

Trans rights ARE women’s rights. They’re human rights too.

I know “trans women are women” vs “wahhh no they’re not” is the impasse this always reaches making such interactions as this utterly pointless.

I suppose I just came to register my shock and also point out where the law and law enforcement stands on transphobia and other hate crimes.

But I just hope that you question one day what it is inside you that’s behind the hatred and why. I don’t understand why - but you should probably look into why you do.

Intersectional feminism is trans-inclusive. I’m sure it’s awfully convenient to exclude groups to make your arguments work for you but academically it’s cheating and it’s lazy. Politically it’s regressive. It’s on the way out.

Being socialised male actually gives transwomen a very unique and useful insight into feminist issues, they have very illuminating perspectives that are particularly good for making men understand women’s experiences. A valuable asset!

I think it has been changed recently actually, but I don’t remember the details WHat has changed, Intersectional Feminism? Well, some have tried to change it, to include transwomen. But I suspect you'll find that, given there's no joining fee and no rules, many women are rejecting that, just as they reject all other TRA activism that seeks to dismantle women's rights.

Maybe I have higher levels of empathy than average, I don’t know

No dear, you have been more impacted or more easily manipulated, by female socialisation which involves centring the needs of men over those of women. That’s your problem.

I’ll say it again... acknowledging observable material reality is not ‘hate’. Insisting men can be women in their minds, is misogynistic and really really stupid. It’s like saying the earth is flat.

Oh, how sweet of you! An open invitation to bite back and bite hard.

Sorry dear, many far better than you have been here and tried that. Amusing though it is it does get tiresome quickly, it palls!

Valuable Assett = invitation to get yourself banned. Twattish but so very, very silly.

No zoe, they are not.

There is an argument that transwomen and transmen have a cause to fight against oppression or discrimination due to their trans status. I support that. But I do not support the strange notion that transwomen are actually or literally women - they are not. Factually, not.

Transwomen are protected by law, under the protected characteristic of gender reassingment - but women also have their own protections, we have exemptions under the Equality Act to protect women-only spaces and occupations - and to exclude transwomen (even with grc) from women-only services, occupations, sports and so on.

Intersectional feminism is only trans-inclusive to the point that it would include women who identify as men - as they will face/have faced/do face oppression due to being born female. And, for example, transmen may require female-specific services such as cervical screening, or abortions - transwomen do not.

Being socialised male actually gives transwomen a very unique and useful insight into feminist issues, they have very illuminating perspectives that are particularly good for making men understand women’s experiences. A valuable asset!

Bollocks to that.

It's not an impasse. One is based in reality and the other not so much.

All transwomen are men and you can't change that fact ever. If they weren't men they couldn't be transwomen. Unless of course you think women can be transwomen too?

We get that intersectional feminism is trans inclusive it's just that most people, including rad fems, think that intersectional feminism is bullshit. Or at least this current, bastardised version of it.

But I just hope that you question one day what it is inside you that’s behind the hatred and why. I don’t understand why - but you should probably look into why you do.

We could just as easily ask this question of you.

Your belittlement and disdain for the female sex is palpable. The refusal to acknowledge females as a class of people in their own right, separate from males with their own distinct needs and rights is both misogynistic and hateful.

Do you think transwomen might have picked up any negative aspects of being socialised male from birth?

Is it the taking of hormones that removes any lingering toxic masculinity or something else?

What would you say to someone who is triggered by the inclusion of a trans woman with a penis in a traditionally female space?

How can you tell the difference between a newly 'out' transwoman making their way in the world, and a predator who is using a trans identity? At what point should transwomen start using female spaces in their transition?