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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Even when they get what they want....

279 replies

BoxOfBabyCheeses · 31/05/2019 12:41

....they still scream "transphobia!"

UCLA have said that they will install a number of unisex bathrooms throughout campus. These will have floor to ceiling partitions to protect privacy. Now students are claiming that this is transphobia as it implies that trans people are all peeping toms. They get what they claim they want, but they want it on their terms not ours.

OP posts:
Herland · 31/05/2019 22:21

@LimeKiwi

This is also not debate and is shutting down conversation -

Posters: Can you explain what a women is to you?

LimeKiwi and Mandel: You are all really mean!

Posters: Producing policy based on the existence of a soul sounds like religious dogma and public policy surely shouldn't be based on religious, unscientific dogma?

Mandela: I'm going home

LimeKiwi: You are all really mean!

You don't want debate. You don't want to acknowledge other points of view. But you are passively aggressively attempting to gaslight us all into thinking we are bad people. I see you.

CharlieParley · 31/05/2019 22:22

Identical? Is every single biologically born woman identical to one another? We are obviously very different to each other, we are not identical.

No, we are not identical. Apart from being born human and female, there is not one experience that all female humans have in common. However, there are experiences that only women and girls qua females can have.

The male human does not menstruate or ovulate, does not have medical investigations if he doesn't do either, worry about getting pregnant from rape, need an abortion, has breasts ironed flat or labia and clitoris cut off to keep him pure, is not forced into marriage aged 12, is not fired for being pregnant or demoted after giving birth.

No male human knows what it feels like when a nine-month-fetus seems to want to box its way out of the womb that shelters it or when another human being can survive entirely on the food his body produces.

(Not an exhaustive list)

While not all women qua adult human females share these or any of the other exclusively female experiences, enough of us share some of these experiences to make womanhood a collective experience, especially as lived by the females of one region, culture and time period.

For instance, 96 to 97% of women menstruate, 80% of UK women become mothers, 70% experience sexual harassment, 40% male sexual or physical violence and - as an example for the unpaid labour burdens that continue fall disproportionately on females - UK women aged 45 to 54 women are four times as likely as men to reduce working hours to care for a loved one. And so on.

Many of us share some, many or most of these and other exclusively female experiences.

Womanhood - the sum of our experiences as females in a male-dominated world - is the state of being a woman. A state which is based on having any number of exclusively female experiences, in common with billions of other women throughout the past and present. It is therefore something that only women qua females can experience.

Men, including those claiming womanhood, can of course share some of our experiences that are not rooted in female biology but that are nonetheless more typically encountered by the female of the species. That doesn't make them women or their experience womanhood.

LimeKiwi · 31/05/2019 22:22

There's only one group that demand no debate
You general you kind of are though if you straight away piss rip and pile on.
Jessica has just said as much but in not as many words - "I'm not debating, why would I?
That's my point being made for me really.

LimeKiwi · 31/05/2019 22:24

I see you

Oh ffs lol.

Ereshkigal · 31/05/2019 22:24

Don't mind if I do, Spartacus! It has notes of green fruits.

Michelleoftheresistance · 31/05/2019 22:25

Tbh, do you really expect at this stage of debate to people attentively and supportively listening to 'gendered souls' theories? Yet again? For the umptymillionth time? How many times do you think women on FWR have gone over this ground? What do you think that 'sigh' signified? Read the room.

No one here is under contract to be endlessly, inexhaustably patient and nice every single time someone appears and trots out the same old tired fairy tales that have been debunked and debunked and debunked. It leans heavily on the 'women have to be nice to be taken seriously' misogyny and that tends not to wash around here.

LimeKiwi · 31/05/2019 22:27

Oo green fruits. I like green fruits ignores the playground dig
Lots of nice lime. I like lime better than kiwi

JessicaWakefieldSV · 31/05/2019 22:29

Well why debate something if the other party is using different definitions for key words: woman and man. We can debate the bathroom laws till the cows come home. I will always say no. I will never, however, stop someone else from having their say. That is what no debate is doing, stopping others from debating or speaking, should they wish to.

Herland · 31/05/2019 22:30

Poor old LimeKiwi is obviously getting tired now.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 31/05/2019 22:30

How many times do you think women on FWR have gone over this ground?

I estimate, roughly, 12 billion and 46.

Ereshkigal · 31/05/2019 22:31

They never get tired of this.

Herland · 31/05/2019 22:35

@CharleyParley excellently succinct post btw. Can I nick it for use later?

Michelleoftheresistance · 31/05/2019 22:36

Always baffles me when a poster has no interest in actual debate and just states how wrong and stupid and intransigent everyone in FWR is and how there's no point in talking to them....

And then invests hours and huge amounts of energy in repeatedly posting that over and over and over again.

Other than a hope that maybe it will derail the thread and prevent discussion managing to happen, or that readers of the thread will get so bored they go away, I don't understand the motivation. It's like a Momentum member hanging out on a Tory Party forum and endlessly moaning at them all for being Tory.

LangCleg · 31/05/2019 22:40

They never get tired of this.

Amazing, the energy available for making demands of female socialisation when you compare it to that expended on something really simple like defining terms, isn't it?

Oh. No. That's right. Not amazing at all. Just the usual endless circle jerk. You'd be forgiven for thinking that was the aim all along, wouldn't you?!

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 31/05/2019 22:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LimeKiwi · 31/05/2019 22:48

You general you derail it yourself to start with, how can you not see that?! Confused
Unless you mean derailing in the sense that people who actually do post with different views actually go "hang on a minute" and refuse to just let the echo chamber pile on to them with tears and rocks and idiots etc.
It derails when people start that shit up or are they just supposed to take it?

LangCleg · 31/05/2019 22:49

We have to stop this happening.

Yes. Because there is no other purpose than to take up women's time and emotional energy. Why on earth provide it?

terfsandwich · 31/05/2019 22:51

How tedious. I'll have a glass. Wine

MenstruatorExtraordinaire · 31/05/2019 22:54

Time to ignore the trolls IMO. Time wasters the lot of them.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 31/05/2019 22:55

Yet another thread on an important topic completely and utterly derailed. We have to stop this happening.

It won't stop.

however it doesn't actually stop good information from being here.

CharlieParley · 31/05/2019 23:05

Herland feel free, my post is just based on all the stuff I'm reading on this whole issue.

Datun · 31/05/2019 23:10

Hundreds of posts calling everybody mean, and not a single question addressed.

Sigh.

FamilyOfAliens · 31/05/2019 23:15

tears and rocks and idiots

How many times do you have to be told - it was Mandala who called Layla Moran an idiot 🙄

LimeKiwi · 31/05/2019 23:23

I never mentioned Moran.
Well, if we're naming?
Littlebrowndog said idiot
Datun called an MP with a different view an idiot too.
Really conducive to people wanting to engage with opposite views.

FloralBunting · 31/05/2019 23:30

God, it's beyond pathetic. Truly.

How anyone could be arsed to just turn up to keep posting "But you're so meeean" over and over while claiming to have offered a 'different view' baffles me.

Seriously. The bankruptcy of this approach is so obvious to onlookers. But I guess you general you get a nice cosy glow from scoffing down all those virtue cookies when you look in the mirror and rehearse the cult mantras.

Bizarre behaviour.

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