Even when they get what they want....

[BoxOfBabyCheeses]

....they still scream "transphobia!"

UCLA have said that they will install a number of unisex bathrooms throughout campus. These will have floor to ceiling partitions to protect privacy. Now students are claiming that this is transphobia as it implies that trans people are all peeping toms. They get what they claim they want, but they want it on their terms not ours.

I agree good info on this thread despite those who lack the capacity to debate. Just sharing the story from the original post is enough to strengthen the case that the "toilet" issue is not about safety but control.

Datun called an MP with a different view an idiot too.

No I didn't, I was quoting Mandala. It might help if you actually read the thread.

And it's tedious and a little weird how many times you can post without addressing a single, solitary question.

If somebody patronisingly says "how many times do you have to be told" when actually, I was right and it was others, I'm going to stand up for myself.
I know you'd probably rather I laid down and took it instead.

The bit I don't understand is that unisex toilets will be for everybody, trans or not. So why is it transphobia?

I wonder what ucla's response has been.

The toilet stalls that UCLA intend to install are mandatory for mixed sex toilets in the UK, except ours must also include a sink so you can clean up after a period. We have stronger human rights and equality laws than the US, imo.

I'm concerned that we will go the same way as the US. There was a thread recently where US/Canadian students walked out of a lecture because they have been brainwashed into believing that biology is literally fascism.

Hear hear CharleyParley!

So why is it transphobia

Because they're women too (yes I know not biologically before someone says)

The toilet stalls that UCLA intend to install are mandatory for mixed sex toilets in the UK, except ours must also include a sink...

I wasn’t aware of this. So the cases where we’ve heard from women that the ladies loos where they work have suddenly become “gender neutral” don’t meet UK legal requirements? Or do they get away with it by saying “gender neutral” rather than unisex?

Yes, I think this is one of the key questions - why is enhanced protection in what is clearly set up as a mixed sex space considered 'transphobic'? Sirely the objecting students are the ones assuming trans people are peeping toms. Personally I would assume that men possibly being peeping toms was the main driver behind these measures.

And suggesting that trans people who have male bodies would behave like men statistically are more likely to is a suggestion that sounds rather... exclusionary...

But even if trans women are women, the point of them not using male toilets was supposed to be for their safety from violent, sexually predatory men. These unisex toilets are for women, trans women, transmen, men and violent, sexually predatory men. The floor to ceiling design surely protects trans women. Not therefore transphobic.

Sirely the objecting students are the ones assuming trans people are peeping toms.

Exactly. Why aren't the transwomen as worried as the women, if TWAW.

But even if you disregard trans women and just consider the unisex toilet. Men and women would be sharing them. Which means women should be entitled to privacy. So the argument that full cubicles are transphobic, how do they argue that the the floor to ceiling walls aren't just to protect from any male that may use the toilet. They are centring the toilet onteanswhenwe are just saying we don't want men to be able to invade our privacy.

In a way i take a little comfort from the fact that, having forced the colleges to provide unisex bathrooms, it’s kind of a Pyrrhic victory for those most invested in performing femininity. There’s no validation to be had for their womanly specialness If the bathrooms are for everyone. No frisson of ‘look at me womaning’ when the space you are strutting into is open to all - men, women, trans - and not an inner sanctum dedicated to magical womanly essence where girly gossip and giggles are swapped while touching up hair and make up and helping each other insert tampons.

LimeKiwi

So why is it transphobia?

Because they're women too (yes I know not biologically before someone says)

Okay, thank you for answering this question at least.
Given your answer, in the spirit of the polite discussion you have said is missing, I have a question about your stated opinion.

Toilets primarily exist so that people can take care of their biological functions in privacy and dignity. We have progressed from ditches and corners of fields and sneaking out under cover of darkness, and international aid agencies are fighting to bring this progress to the developing world, recognizing the immense difference it makes in the lives of women being able to participate in public life.

The facilities are designed with the specific biological requirements in mind - urinals in the men's, sanitary disposal in the women's, handrails and higher seats in the disabled loos etc.

My question is this: when a facility is designed to fulfill a specific biological requirement, why should we divide those facilities based on something other than biological fit?
How is segregating by gender (still would genuinely love to hear your definition of gender) more beneficial for biological women and girls?

Because they're women too (yes I know not biologically before someone says) in what way then? Evidence please.

ALittleBitofVitriol

Your post, so much your post! Thanks for that! 😁

Oh no! My smiley turned out wrong, so sorry - totally conveys the opposite of my intent!!! I meant (tried to do it fancy-like - I failed).

StopThePlanet thanks!
I won't hold my breath that Lime will answer, which is fine, it just shows exactly what sort of 'discussion' Lime really wanted.

Would be thrilled to be proved wrong. Honestly. I've asked and asked so many people and have never received any answers.

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1133793641074483200.html
Wow Datun that's quite a list! I have seen most of these reports individually but together - all in one place - It's something else!!!

Great question alittlebit, I’m sitting here politely waiting on an answer. It’s so nice to have some polite debate.

Great post, ALittleBitofVitriol. Just reposting your questions for LimeKiwi, because I'd really like to see the answers.

My question is this: when a facility is designed to fulfill a specific biological requirement, why should we divide those facilities based on something other than biological fit?

How is segregating by gender (still would genuinely love to hear your definition of gender) more beneficial for biological women and girls?