"a bunch of nasty women with short hair"

[aprilviolets]

is how India Willoughby describes the people she thinks have influenced the Scout's very sensible decision.
Is it a compulsory feature of womanhood, appropriated or not, to have long hair??!

I can imagine some really awful man saying "..a bunch of nasty women with short hair.." (Trump, for example) but I just don't get why a lovely lady like India would be so dismissive and mean to her fellow humans. Sarcasm smiley.

when you've been living as a woman (whatever that means) for four years, I guess it gives you a greater insight into womanhood than some old broad like me, living as a biologically female human for half a century.

I’d say having a period, being leered at in your school uniform, not needing to shave your face, and having real boobs is a pretty good experience of living as a female. Not the only ones of course but it’s a good start.

A good number of these celebrity trans, when as men, often look quite 'soft' and gentle, but as 'women' they become hard-bitten drama queens. The living embodiment of the most catty drag act ever.

Funnily enough most gay men I know are a bit scared of drag queens.

When I was a teenager, back in the 80s, I decided to get my shoulder length hair cut short. I just felt like it, and wondered what I would look like with short hair, since I had had long(ish) hair since I was little. Many other girls in my year, including some of the cool girls who were popular with the boys, also had short hair. It wasn't a big deal. A couple of years later I grew it long again and it has been a variety of lengths since. However when I see photographs of teenage girls now, it's very hard to spot any of them with short hair. Is this just the current fashion, or is having short hair now some sort of statement of gender non-conformation? Or am I old and out of touch?

These are good questions, Rubidium - I've noticed that too. Teenage girls are generally much more conventionally feminine than in my day - long hair and make-up are de rigueur for the modern female teenager. Quite depressing, really. At 16, I hardly knew anyone who wore make-up except on a night out, and plenty of us had short hair.

Amusing to imagine that India regards accusing a woman of having short hair as the ultimate put down, rather than simply exposing India's very narrow worldview of what constitutes a woman.

Hair is huge for trans women, especially wigs. They can instantly create the illusion of long, thick, lustrous hair which is often seen as a symbol of femininity. Biological males often have male pattern baldness too, so wigs are often a crucial feature in the wardrobe.

Despite the fact that I have never knowingly interacted with Willloughby, I am blocked.

Hey, India - I've got short hair - and am XX, complete with uterus, fallopian tubes, vagina.

I reckon that makes me a woman. How 'bout you?

As if any woman of the XX variety, gives a shit about IW’s opinions.

PP just reminded me that I had my hair cut pretty short in about 1983 as did lots of other girls and women, probs due to lady Di looking back.

Also when it came to pop stars there was massive gender non conformity all over the place from both men and women. To the point where it was not even non conforming any more, girls with short hair and suits and boys with lush locks and makeup were the norm.

India was obviously around in those days.

Seems lots of people have short memories and also a desire to enforce very strict gender appearance and grooming rules.

On Scouts, common sense, good news.

Girl guides have got themselves in an entrenched position though where apparently girls in camp bunking in with unexpected dick is fine as the dick owners are female so there is literally nothing to even think about. Oh and girls / their parents who don't like it can leave.

That can't be right ? Male pattern baldness ...wouldn't that be caused by male hormones ?

Erm...

yes I know some XX women develop "male pattern" hair thinning as they age due to dropping oestrogen which allows testosterone to be dominant so it doesn't alter my point

India Willoughby's idea of what a makes a 'good' (as opposed to bad) woman are very much those of a male who grew up in the 1970's 80's in a sexist environment.

I have very long hair, but it's always in a bun and doesn't take me more than five minutes a day to deal with. I also have hairy legs and sensible shoes. Somehow I think I wouldn't meet with India's approval despite the long hair. Not Barbie-like enough.

India seems to be an extremely shallow and superficial person.

pansexuals (she jokes that this means they’re only attracted to pans and kitchen utensils)
is that saucepansexual or fryingpansexual ... we need to know!

SandyDrawsBadly has the answers!

Windy Illougby is a tit.

My friend’s dd now identifies as pansexual. 🙄

I suspect for many girls, pansexual means both 'I'm cool' and 'I'm a good girl please don't attack me for potentially excluding anyone/anything/any penis you can burn me as a witch for bully me over'.

Salem's witch trials in action.

Wasn't it Willoughby who reeled open mouthed in horror when Willoughby discovered that MN wasn't full of brainless, cosy mumsies woofling gently about prams and actually involved real people? With brains. Who read. And did politics. And argued about stuff with evidence and told it like it was. (Some of whom probably have sensible shoes and short hair !!)

How is a pansexual different from a bisexual?

I have long hair. And hairy legs. And sensible shoes.

I have long hair because it requires no styling and allows me to go years months between trips to the hairdresser. But it is a bugger when the DC helpfully share their headlice.

I am not sure that IW's experience of long hair is the same as mine.

How is a pansexual different from a bisexual?

They don't have to deal with endless interrogations about whether they're inclusive of furries/ trans/ otherkin/ Xmen/ Martians/ etc with menaces if they show any sign of boundaries.

If you say you're bi to the Woke, prepare to be reproached for implying that reality does exist and sex is binary.

Also when it came to pop stars there was massive gender non conformity all over the place from both men and women. To the point where it was not even non conforming any more, girls with short hair and suits and boys with lush locks and makeup were the norm.

Break it gently to India, but all those lovely young chaps in kpop boybands are still all over the gender-bending dressy up. Make-up (not just guyliner - eyeshadow, lippy, contouring, all sorts), pastels, silky blouses, sparkly earrings and bling, pink hair, purple hair, floral suits, more pastels. All very free. I think part of the reason I enjoy watching the MVs on YouTube so much is that it reminds me of 80s music here, with the new Romantics embracing softer, more expressive attire. BTS’ Blood Sweat & Tears MV is a good example.

India Willoughby's idea of what a makes a 'good' (as opposed to bad) woman are very much those of a male who grew up in the 1970's 80's in a sexist environment.

True, though I know a lot of men of that vintage, and none of them would ever come out with anything as sexist as being disparaging about women with short hair. They might think it, I suppose, but they wouldn't say it. India doesn't have the basic good sense to realise that coming across as a sexist male golf club bore isn't a good look if you want people to think you're a woman.

Also, India’s so rude! If India can dish it, India shouldn’t be surprised when mud gets slung back over the fence.

I was once told that blokes like long hair on women because you can use it to hold and control during sex. Something to grab on to.

Q.v. porn.

There is a trans person at my work. Instantly and easily identifiable as trans because they wear a man’s idea of “laydeez” conservative work clothes. On the knee tweed skirts with tan tights, twinsets, jackets. Plus a carefully coiffured and sprayed bob. With alice band. In a workplace where the women’s dress code is practical- usually dark trousers and shirt and hair tied back if it’s any longer than short.

It’s about men. It is not about women.