make up and 6yo DD - what to do?

[resisterpersister]

Please help me deal with this situation!

DD's cousins came to visit yesterday, and gave 6yo DD a make up set. The cousins rarely visit and I didn't feel up to souring the visit by rejecting the gift in front of them. So she spent yesterday with her cousins, covering themselves with make up. She bloody loves it. First thing she did this morning? Put more make up on.

Lots of DD's classmates are allowed to play with make up, but she knows I won't buy it for her. I don't wear it myself. I talk to her in an age appropriate way about why I don't like make up and don't wear it.

If it was up to me, this would never have come in the house! But it's here now. I could just take it away, but I'm worried that'll make it into a huge thing, I'm not sure if that'll achieve anything other than make her want it more and feel she's been treated unjustly (and, oh, do I remember the times I felt my parents were being unjust to me!)

I suppose I could let her play with it for a few days till she forgets about it and then quietly "lose" it. (Is that cowardly?)

I could impose boundaries around it (what?). She's already said she wants to wear it to school every day and I've said errr... no!

We've been talking a bit about why adults wear make up, and I've told her about how if you wear make up every day, it's a bit like it casts a spell on you and you feel you can't go outside without wearing it, and we talked about how much of a pain that would be if her friend came round to ask her to play, but she missed out because she couldn't just leave the house.

What do I do, oh wise FWR women? I want to just throw the bloody thing away, but I'm worried about creating a bigger deal out of it and making it an even greater object of desire!

The age on the box say 5+ . Who makes this stuff FFS?

You have a far bigger feminism issue than make up to be honest. You think it’s damaging and have very strong opinions on it and yet you’ll let it be handed to your 6 year old so as not to cause offence? What’s that teaching her?

If someone handed my son a golliwog or grand theft auto or I don’t know what else I’d say thanks but no thanks.

For what it’s worth I think there’s far bigger feminist issues to tackle than 6 year olds playing with make up sets targeted at dress up.

They were making a statement.

That make up is art? You don't have to wear make up to cover up perceived flaws. You can wear it in the same way that you wear jewellery or clothes or any other kind of body art.

This is deeply sexist whether you realise it or not. Men do not do this. They do not feel like they're wearing jogging bottoms if they turn up to a wedding without a painted face. It's deeply disturbing to me that women like you think like this, and feel it's OK. It goes beyond a playful art form if you cannot be without it without feeling negative about yourself. I don't want my daughter falling into this trap.

Many men feel like they're under-dressed or not at their 'best' without hair products. Some won't leave the house without them either.

You don't have to wear make up to cover up perceived flaws. You can wear it in the same way that you wear jewellery or clothes or any other kind of body art.

You don't have to wear make up to cover up perceived flaws. But people (women usually) do.
You can wear it ... (as) body art. But how many people (women) really do?

The fact that things can be done or are occasionally done doesn't really create a strong argument.

My daughter has been putting make up on since she was 3. She puts it on me and we both end up looking like Bowie in the 70s, if the make up artist had been shit faced. Blue lips, silver foreheads, four extra eyebrows. Nothing like “grown up” make up.

Before that she painted herself with paint, so I prefer this.

One of her little friends goes to parties with very well done make up. I’m not a fan of that but if you let her mess with it she’ll just end up looking like something from 90s Aussie tv show The Tribe. If she’s not watching you put it on day in day out it’s just dress up.

But, you know, this is FWR not AIBU. I thought women here would understand the issues with makeup, even if they choose to wear it every day themselves. It's pretty basic feminism - isn't it?

Well, you know the 'women's rights' board is the only one I visit - I can't be bothered with the rest. I found my way to Mumsnet, primarily, for discussion of the trans issue; and I would class myself as radical not liberal feminist.

Have to say surprised to see a thread about make-up here in the first place. But I responded in good faith - on the basis of having grown up children and a granddaughter.We all understand the issues with make-up - but some of us think you are getting too het-up about it. That's all.

And if your boys had liked make up?

I can see you are trying to 'position' me in some way - but you're on the wrong track altogether.

As it happens, one of my sons is bisexual; used to love Ricky Martin, and would pose bare chested with a big, gold chain around his neck, while DJ'ing and grooving at imaginary decks.

You can wear it ... (as) body art. But how many people (women) really do?

Children do it all the time.

You're still making a fuss about nothing.

Honestly. It's bank holiday Monday, crack open the wine or something productive.

That's for the op

Op, I would let your DD get on with it, she’s very young and she will tire of it quickly, if she’s plastering it on like you say she is then it will be used up anyway soon.
I am a feminist all the way. I also have long hair, wear very feminine dresses, heels, make up and perfume, it doesn’t make me any less of a feminist.
My adult DD is also a feminist, as a child she liked dressing up in fairy dresses, painting her nails and had a really blingy glittery pink bedroom (her choice)
She has what is considered a male job (farrier) and stands her own trust me! Out of work she wears feminine clothes and make up.
For me being a feminist is about MY choices. I like being a woman and women should be free to present themselves how THEY choose.
A woman who chooses to have short hair, wear no make up, no jewellery and dress in a T shirt and jeans is no more a feminist than me.

Oi

So am I not a feminist if I enjoy wearing make up? I don't wear it for other people, I know people don't give a shit about my red skin. I'm also capable of leaving the house with a bare face. There's nothing un-feminist about being feminine.

If it makes any difference, my two young boys enjoy playing with my make up brushes, and DS1 has his toenails painted regularly.

He came home from school a while back parroting that pink was just for girls. I just said "oh really?" and got out my pink nail varnish and started painting my nails. He soon sat next to me and wiggled his toes in my direction

IMO make up for children should only be for play and dressing up. But if she likes it, why is it so wrong if you're teaching her body positivity/to be confident in her own skin anyway?

For what it's worth - many men do wear make up for reasons other than "making a statement."

I know at least 7 men who wear make up regularly, all different reasons.
Three are make up artists for department shops and salons, they wear it because they enjoy it and it showcases their talents to potential clients.
One is a drag queen.
The other three had/have severe acne, and make up makes their scars less noticeable.

Sorry I don’t see the issue and think it would have the opposite effect to make it into one. It doesn’t have to go from saying make up is ok at 6 to not being able to go out without makeup as an adult .

I like wearing makeup because it makes me look visibly better. Why is that an issue?

I always find it a bit depressing to see feminists looking down their noses at feminine interests. It reminds me of how I used to sneer at the brilliant seamstresses in my family, at my mum's love for knitting and at my aunties for their weekly shampoo and sets. In my defence I was only about 13.

I do get your concerns about the beauty industry and the liars and charlatans getting rich through playing on our insecurities. Even though I wear make up myself, I'm often at the amount of effort that goes into 'basic grooming' these days. But whether you approve or not, a lot of women genuinely derive immense pleasure from make up, and your daughter may turn out to be one of them.

I would carry on talking to her about your concerns, in age appropriate language: 'Have you noticed it's mostly women who do this - why do you think it is?' 'This takes a lot of time, doesn't it, would you really want to do every day?' As you say, you're already doing it anyway.

I would have taken it away in front of the cousins and just said oh we don't have that in this house. Nip it in the bud. She'll be getting more for Christmas now. As she's played with it I think you need to explain to her why you don't want her to have it. Don't just disappear it, but do take it off her.

I would put boundaries on it. Yes, she can play with it at home, like dress ups. No, she cannot wear it out of the house/to school. I would explain to her that makeup is just for play for kids, and that if she wants to wear it when she's older that will be up to her. Right now, it's up to you and you say no. Simple.

I hate make-up, no I never allowed my daughter to have any. She's a teen now and kind of curious but mostly ambivalent. We also didn't allow the pink explosion (my dd was more often in yellow or red, her favourite colours) and no barbie ever. No, it didn't become a thing. I'm very glad we were those annoying parents. I very rarely wear make-up and have hardly any around (1 tinted moisturizer, 1 eye liner pencil)

do try to encourage get to get something fun like a cat and not a boring old princess though

I'm struggling to think of anything more lazy, more pointless and more selfish than my 3 cats- much as I love them.

You are letting your prejudices show - why is a princess automatically old and boring? There are plenty of princesses in fiction and real life who aren't/weren't.

Children do it all the time.

Children wear make-up as body art "all the time"? Not in my world. Children occasionally get face paints painted onto them and look like tigers and superheroes and fairies.

In any case, your comment, based on the reference to choices about clothing and jewellery, appeared to be about adults.

My cousin had a good rule for if her DD got makeup or overly grown-up clothes when she was pre-teen - they could be used for 'dress up'/playing at home, but not wearing out and about.

My son and daughter both played with and loved make up. It's fun, face painting joy for them, I wouldn't dream of forbidding it, that would be so miserable and miss the point.

Being insecure and needing to wear make up is such a different thing than being five years old and joyfully drawing on your face/hands/body.

do try to encourage get to get something fun like a cat and not a boring old princess though

why should princesses be boring? OP, i think you are the kind of feminist that looks down on what are perceived as 'feminine interests''.Feminism is about choice, and tbh you aren't a true feminist for pointing out flaws on other women about the CHOICES they have CHOSEN to make.

You're looking at it with adult eyes. She's six. It's dress up, role play, imaginative play. No different from butterfly face paint, Spider-Man costume, pretending to give teddy some home made 'cake'.

Why are you even having conversation about women wearing make up at her age? Leave that till she's older!

I have had almost exactly the same experience. Aged 3 or 4 (I think) my daughter was given a giant make up set by relatives.

I said thank you then threw it away after they left. She was upset for about 5 minutes but I think I distracted her by saying she could watch a movie.

I allowed princess dresses but drew the line at fake heels and make up.

She also wanted a Barbie doll. I bought one in the end because I remember my mother saying I couldn't have one and that made me want one even more. Anyway I just bought a single doll with no extra accessories or outfits.

She played with it for a bit. Then it was forgotten about and given away.

At the moment she is nearly 12. She isn't for the moment particularly obsessed by her appearance but I guess that could all change.

Not sure what approach you should take. Just sharing my own experience.