Mermaids response to piece in Mail tomorrow

[EweSurname]

Looking forward to seeing what drops

www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/press-enquiry-from-the-mail-on-sunday-25th-may-2019.html

We are very proud of the training we offer to schools and we have a proven record of helping teachers to support vulnerable children who simply want to get along with their lessons like any of their classmates.

We are disappointed to find that a school governor has made a covert recording of our training because our presentations are not held in secret and all of the scientific and legal information we offer is publicly available and well-tested.

We are surprised to see that a Church of England rector is complaining about our training when we are included in the CoE guidance on support for transgender people, which can be found here.

Part of the work of Mermaids is giving training talks to schools. These talks are well received and are an important part of how we promote an inclusive and informed approach to trans children and those who support them.

We have been contacted by the Mail on Sunday who are doing an article about one such talk. This post is our response, in accordance with our policy of posting our replies to media queries for the benefit of anyone interested in our activities.

Right now stonewall and Mermaid in particular are taking the stance that wearing the clothes of the opposite sex, makes you that sex. Rather than removing the stereotype and reducing association of "girl things and boy things" they are enforcing these stereotypes, if you like pink, you are a girl regardless of your actual sex.

Are you saying you agree with this?

Or is it that you've not actually understood fully what is happening and are now feeling a bit of a tit?

If a teenage boy decides to identify as a girl, is it useful to have peers, teachers and parents shouting: you are a HE, you don't menstruate, you have a penis!! A penis!!! Would you just push for a strong desire to change the body. Is it easier to explain that some people don't conform with a particular identity, that this has always happened and to allow whatever it is they want to identify with?
Yes, so long as this does not endanger anyone else - so not toilets, not prisons, not bathrooms or changing rooms, not scholarships or sports, not medicines. The boys right to be comfortable ends just before my daughter or he is put at risk.

Just because something is easier doesn't make it right. And easier for who? This boy today, this boy later in life, the girls in his class, the adults around him?

Or are you parroting something you've heard other people say without thinking of the actual meaning?

I think there's a lot of that going on.

Or is it that you've not actually understood fully what is happening and are now feeling a bit of a tit?

And this.

"But this isn't what genderists like Mermaids are asking for. Their line is that a boy who wears a skirt becomes a girl."

Exactly. That's a problem because we don't get to change scientific facts just by wishing they weren't true. Sex is determined by chromosomes at conception, not "assigned at birth. You can dress up as a cat, eat cat food and tell everyone you are a cat. But that doesn't mean you're actually a cat, just because you and your friends think you are.

But that doesn't mean you're actually a cat, just because you and your friends think you are.

There are people who do this.

Camaleon
Of course Trans people exist, if you really have read many threads on the Feminist boards then you would know that nobody here is attempting to or denying their existence. You should seriously consider your conflation of transgender and Intersex. They are not the same. I follow an Intersex person on Twitter and they really aren't happy that their medical condition is being dragged into this shitshow
I'm an old woman now and I remember the crap that was spoken about gay and lesbian people years ago. Fantastic work was done by Stonewall back then to break down the barriers and push the acceptance that same sex attracted people are not abnormal and they should not be stigmatised for being same sex attracted. It took too long and it was great that this issue was made very public.
For me, the problem I have with Mermaids is that it's regression to those old horrific Homophobic days.
If a girl likes blue and cars and maybe likes females then she must be a boy.
If a boy likes pink and sparkly stuff, and maybe likes boys then he must be a girl.
Stereotypical gender nonsense and hugely Homophobic.
I'm waiting for the day when a GC person is on trial and is asked, " are you, or, have you ever been a member of the Transphobic party"
Also, just think about this, who would be interested in a sterile, child like person with no boundaries. An Adult in the Law's eyes but a person who has had their puberty blocked. Blockers are not reversible, also an 8% drop in IQ
Just pause a moment and think for yourself for once. Who does this benefit.
It's not the child.

If I want to become British I must pass a 'life in the UK test/an English test' and live 'x' number of years. Many will never consider me 'real British' whatever I identify with

I just can’t let that one pass. Sorry, no, you aren’t ‘British’ in this scenario, you’re a British citizen. It’s not an identity. It’s something you are by birth. You can’t identify yourself into an ethnicity. My DD moved here from NZ with us as a baby and she still isn’t english. She is a Māori New Zealander with British citizenship.

If I want to become British I must pass a 'life in the UK test/an English test' and live 'x' number of years. Many will never consider me 'real British' whatever I identify with.

If I need to claim rights based on a disability, I will also have to prove the disability and identify with it.

Some tests must exist. But then we are repulsed by the nature of the test.

There is no test a man can take to 'become a woman'. Strewth. It's the height of sexism to suggest there is. Not to mention an absurd denial of reality.

How many more people are of the, frankly weird, opinion that being a woman is some kind of social category??

The entire concept is insulting and insane in equal measure.

"For me, the problem I have with Mermaids is that it's regression to those old horrific Homophobic days. If a girl likes blue and cars and maybe likes females then she must be a boy. If a boy likes pink and sparkly stuff, and maybe likes boys then he must be a girl."

Yes. It's about claiming you are what you believe a woman or man is, and emulating the stereotypes you think apply.

Mermaids are actually worse and more dangerous than the Section 28 days.

Even Thatcher didn’t suggest that kids who didn’t match their sex-role stereotype should be ‘fixed’ by being drugged, sterilised & operated on.

"For me, the problem I have with Mermaids is that it's regression to those old horrific Homophobic days. If a girl likes blue and cars and maybe likes females then she must be a boy. If a boy likes pink and sparkly stuff, and maybe likes boys then he must be a girl."

Although I have seen Mermaids parents on Twitter saying that their child is not gender conforming, e.g. biological boy who transitions to a girl but dresses like a 'tomboy' and still likes stereotypical boy things.

So what is it that makes them trans? It just gets more and more confusing!

So what is it that makes them trans?
MBP? (not sure if we're allowed to mention that on here)

Stereotypes are so omnipresent a lot of people can't even see them. All those studies that show the slogans on boys' t-shirts show predatory animals, superheroes, soldiers, active men pursuing a career. Girls' t-shirts are made of skimpier material, cut closer to the body and the slogans are all about being a good friend, princess, sparkly, unicorns, cuddly animals, love. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

It was better for kids in the 70s clothes and toy wise I think. My sister would have definitely been cannon fodder for the trans cause if she was a child now.

It was. It was also better in the early 90s when my children were babies, although I was surprised by just how pink everything was in the girls' clothing sections even then.

Yes - buying clothes for my oldest niece (born in the 80s) opposed to my littlest one (now 8) is an eye opener. Thankfully her parents are pretty anti-pink fluffy stuff (she lives batman and ballet).

MBP? (not sure if we're allowed to mention that on here)

Looking at the evidence that comes from Mermaids, we do seem to be running out of options.

It is not a biological condition
It is not a mental illness
A child does not need to conform to the stereotypes associated with the gender they are transitioning to
It is not a necessity to have gender dysphoria

and

It is simple enough that children as young as 3 understand "what they are"

And it's oddly prevalent in families where either an adult member or an older child has already transitioned, or where one or both parents desperately wanted a son but only got daughters or vice versa, or where one or both parents are so open minded their brains have fallen out, or where one or both parents are homophobes.

Well, the inception of the trans identity is always based on stereotypes. Every single testimony includes this - be it external things or behavioural stuff.

At some point, someone will mention the stereotypical basis, and at that point, likely because the route has been chosen and made public among family, friends, school etc. the fall back is the mysterious inner gender that we are assured exists, even though it cannot be quantified or defined.

So a young man who is set on the trans path because he didn't conform early on, begins to find ways of fitting in and being more comfortable as he gets older, and ends up being a 'tomboy' because, let's face it, to admit that actually, yes, he is a boy, because that's just a description of his sex class, not his personality or mysterious inner essence, would be a huge psychological undertaking at that stage.

So he and his family will continue to insist he is a female, now based on nothing but the investment they have made in terms of time, social transition and maybe even medication. Although I suspect many in that situation will begin to adopt Non Binary which might ease the cognitive dissonance a little.

Just a reminder of some of the 'symptoms' of gender dysphoria in children, according to the NHS.

disliking or refusing to wear clothes that are typically worn by their sex and wanting to wear clothes typically worn by the opposite sex

disliking or refusing to take part in activities and games that are typically associated with their sex, and wanting to take part in activities and games typically associated with the opposite sex

preferring to play with children of the opposite biological sex

www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms/

But it's nothing to do with stereotypes.

preferring to play with children of the opposite biological sex

God, that last one made me grind my teeth. Are we headed back to the Victorian era where boys and girls used different school entrances and were segregated in class? It’s a good job my quiet, sensitive son with lots of female friends doesn’t also like to wear pink and sparkles. 🙄

I was not saying that feminists here support the usual uniform policies. My point is that this society is particularly gendered as can be seen in uniform policies forced upon the majority of children from the age of 4/5.
I don't understand why it is wrong to speak about gender and gender stereotypes. There is such thing as 'stereotype accuracy' too. We can agree (I do) that stereotypes associated to sex are pernicious. How to tackle them when you don't talk about them? If we take the premise that gender is entirely a social construct, this has implications on how to explain and address male violence.

I don't know how the budget of Mermaids compare with other organisations. I can only speculate here: most educational activities that are not strictly 'academic' are provided by the school itself (relationships & sex education for instance) or by other existing bodies (the police for knife crime/on-line safety). I don't know how much of the budget of schools and other bodies goes into this. My guess is that most people feel uncomfortable talking about gender identity because most of us cannot understand it. So it is better/easier to outsource it. Perhaps it would be also better to outsource education about different abilities/autism/etc. instead of pretending teachers can navigate these topics.

I don't see why we should not talk about gender/race/religion/class or other forms of identities that are also social constructs but impact peoples' lives' tremendously. As long as trans people exist (and really I cannot see a moment in time or geography where they were not there) we should find a way to protect their rights and to talk about it.

By the way, I have made a search on twitter with the phrase 'woman penis' confirming that many women are shouting women don't have penises. Have not found any user saying they have a 'woman penis' (Have only spent a few minutes though)

"I just can’t let that one pass. Sorry, no, you aren’t ‘British’ in this scenario, you’re a British citizen. It’s not an identity. It’s something you are by birth. You can’t identify yourself into an ethnicity. My DD moved here from NZ with us as a baby and she still isn’t english. She is a Māori New Zealander with British citizenship."

So there is something 'essential' about being British? Or Maori New Zealander? This is really confusing. As far as I know States themselves are a social construct that did not exist until the XVII century and only in Europe. Can you explain what being 'British' means without stereotypes?

There is no way of explaining gender identity or any other identity without stereotypes. This does not mean that identities are irrelevant and that sometimes you are FORCED to adopt one just to belong to the society you live in and enjoy certain rights.

My guess is that most people feel uncomfortable talking about gender identity because most of us cannot understand it.

I understand it. It's all about stereotypes.

By the way, I have made a search on twitter with the phrase 'woman penis' confirming that many women are shouting women don't have penises. Have not found any user saying they have a 'woman penis'

Try 'girl dick'. This is the first result on google.

medium.com/@transphilosophr/what-is-girldick-9363515e0bfd