Mermaids response to piece in Mail tomorrow

[EweSurname]

Looking forward to seeing what drops

www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/press-enquiry-from-the-mail-on-sunday-25th-may-2019.html

We are very proud of the training we offer to schools and we have a proven record of helping teachers to support vulnerable children who simply want to get along with their lessons like any of their classmates.

We are disappointed to find that a school governor has made a covert recording of our training because our presentations are not held in secret and all of the scientific and legal information we offer is publicly available and well-tested.

We are surprised to see that a Church of England rector is complaining about our training when we are included in the CoE guidance on support for transgender people, which can be found here.

Part of the work of Mermaids is giving training talks to schools. These talks are well received and are an important part of how we promote an inclusive and informed approach to trans children and those who support them.

We have been contacted by the Mail on Sunday who are doing an article about one such talk. This post is our response, in accordance with our policy of posting our replies to media queries for the benefit of anyone interested in our activities.

I have thought about this a lot; read a lot. Check the numbers (mostly estimates) carefully.
Of course you are going to have a risk of fraud. Men have always claimed that women take advantage of any legislation protecting them to make false allegations. Where number exist the reality is that most false claims exist in the insurance field. There is only anecdotal evidence of men misusing the transwoman tag to enter female spaces. There is no single law that is not breached.

The existing rules don't allow self-ID as such. As I have said this has become a massive issue since the consultation processes where opened in the UK (and other Western countries). This was a bit like Brexit before the Referendum. Most people did not care at all. It has become a massive issue because it has all the right ingredients: simplistic slogans that work for campaings but not for designing policies (TWAW/TWANW). A small minority most of us cannot comprehend (what does it mean you 'feel' a gender?) and is easy to attack.

Most trans I have met/read want to be treated as their preferred identity. There are many shades within this. Those who accept that it means all kind of 'tests' to be accepted and those who believe they mere will should be accepted.

Most minorities who are identity-based are obliged to prove their identity one way or another. There are many identities based on social construct: what is it to be British/Kurd/gypsy? When rights are specifically associated to a minority there is always a test. The difficulty here is that the test is based on:

1. A social construct: gender stereotypes (live like a man or a woman)
2. Surgery which provokes a very strong reaction to many of us.

If I want to become British I must pass a 'life in the UK test/an English test' and live 'x' number of years. Many will never consider me 'real British' whatever I identify with.

If I need to claim rights based on a disability, I will also have to prove the disability and identify with it.

Some tests must exist. But then we are repulsed by the nature of the test. So it is easier to deny their existence all together. It is a complex issue and shouting at people will not resolve it. If a teenage boy decides to identify as a girl, is it useful to have peers, teachers and parents shouting: you are a HE, you don't menstruate, you have a penis!! A penis!!! Would you just push for a strong desire to change the body. Is it easier to explain that some people don't conform with a particular identity, that this has always happened and to allow whatever it is they want to identify with?

I must really leave now. Thanks for engaging.

their mere

I would like schools to focus on differences in a broader way, encompassing diversity that includes even more than LGB. I would love to see disabled children being more prominent in discussion about difference. Particularly non visible and neural differences.

I don’t see Mermaids as being in any way a priority, no matter what your beliefs are. Gender shouldn’t feature in schools at all in my view, but even if I did believe in innate gender, that isn’t something children should have imposed upon them by adults.

You need to consider a parents motive too

spectator.org/more-parents-exploiting-transgender-children/

HumberElla, children in the UK have dressing protocols depending on sex. Is that OK? You may want schools to teach about gender stereotypes. They actually do. Do you deny transgender people exist? Why do you think they should not know about it? They also learn about disability and diversity in much broader terms. It is in the Curriculum of every secondary school (state) I know.

I profoundly disagree with segregated schools by sex (many grammar schools). Why would you separate girls and boys? To me it reinforces every possible stereotype. And I know the arguments against (but I promise you, they would be dismissed in many other European countries that would not allow segregation in publicly funded schools except for religious reasons.

thefederalist.com/2018/09/06/transgender-new-anorexia/

camaleon I've read on here that girls in all girls school do better academically and that boys in all boys do worse. Boys in a mixed school do better while girls do worse..

That’s a lot of questions aimed at me Camaleon

In brief as you address me individually

Dressing protocols depending on sex. Is that OK?

If you mean school uniform, no I don’t believe in enforcement of different uniforms by sex. My school has a selection of garments in school colours. They can be worn by either sex.

You may want schools to teach about gender stereotypes

No, see above.

They actually do (re schools)

If they allow Mermaids in they will teach this.

Do you deny transgender people exist?

No.

Why do you think they should not know about it?

Because gender stereotypes are harmful and are an adult concept imposed on society. Children should be free to express themselves and explore their own personalities as they grow and develop.

They also learn about disability and diversity in much broader terms. It is in the Curriculum of every secondary school (state) I know

That’s great! Can you link to the organisations receiving hundreds of thousands of pounds to lobby government and schools about disabled children’s needs? I should like to get behind it.

Why would you separate girls and boys? To me it reinforces every possible stereotype

Parents who choose to do so probably have their reasons. I’m not one of them and so I wouldn’t know.

Humberella can speak for herself but I think she'd agree making girls wear skirts in school is not a good thing. This is a feminist board so I can't see why you would think any of us think gendered uniforms are a good thing?

Humberella Cross post sorry and I know you can speak for yourself!

I think personally the ‘royal endorsement’ thing is probably wearing a bit thin as a kite mark of quality.

Although it gets air time of course. Which also brings scrutiny and sunlight. Mermaids would probably have faired better staying in murkier waters.

Ha! Thanks Oncewas !
I’m slow typing due to dinner related interruptions!

I went to a girls' school for secondary. It was great. If a girl wanted to do Maths and Sciences it was fine, she didn't get ignored/shouted down/questioned whether this was really a girls' subject, she just did them, and about half my year group went on to do STEM subjects at university (late 70s). My son went to a boys' school. Similar advantages when it came to boys choosing to study languages or do music/drama. In an era when sexual assaults at school are also apparently on the rise I'd go for a girls' school for a girl every time.

Have never heard the phrase 'woman penis'

I suggest a brief visit to Twitter and talk to some high profile transwomen and they’ll soon be telling you about their female penis.

I went to a convent school in a poor area not many nuns left by the time I went but by god they pushed the girls. They really wanted you to do your best & get everything due to you.

I know a woman who says that her 6 year old daughter is really a boy,. She always said she wanted all boys, she has 5 girls. She’s also a huge drama queen.

I would prefer to live in a country without uniforms for state schools and particular dress-codes based on sex where you did not need to make a fuss to wear a skirt if you are a boy.

I agree with this. But this isn't what genderists like Mermaids are asking for. Their line is that a boy who wears a skirt becomes a girl. That boys shouldn't wear skirts, because they're girls' clothes. But if a boy wants to wear a skirt, it can be made OK if he 'identifies as' a girl, and takes steps to 'transition' into 'living like a girl' and 'becoming a girl'.

Transgenderism is the rigid enforcement of gender stereotypes. Do you understand that, camaleon?

My view is that if a boy want to wear a skirt, that's fine, but he's still a boy, because people can't change sex.

Oldcrone is correct. It's much more progessive for society to get to a place where boys can wear skirts and make-up and like fluffy unicorns should they wish and that be ok with everyone. The problem here is not us GC women, it's transgenderism (NB not transgender people, monitors). We see how gender puts people into rigid boxes, we've be busting out of the boxes our entire lives and know its shit!

Cameleon do you agree with Mermaids? That boys who want to grow their hair and like pink should be told their bodies are wrong? Do you think that kids should be medicated to stop their bodies developing if they don’t conform to stereotypes? Should girls who don’t want to wear pink, like diggers and have short hair be told they are really boys, because no real girl should like those things?

I believe kids should be kids, and have all the coloured crayons to play with, without ever being judged or made to feel there is something wrong with their body.

Absolutely! I look around my workplace and the men are all in uniform and women in mufti. Compare it with the male fashions of a few 100 years ago and they are all so restricted.
That is what needs to change. Men need to be able to dress how they want and use nail polish and lippy if they like.

Do you deny transgender people exist?

WHAT DOES THIS SENTENCE FUCKING MEAN?

Do you mean do we deny that there are people who think they are the opposite sex? If you’ve been here as long as you say you have can you show me one instance of us denying that?

If you mean do we deny that anyone can be born in the wrong body, then too fucking right we do. I categorically demy that this is possible.

Have I answered your question?

I deny the existence of Santa Claus, the Loch Ness monster and the Yeti but transvestites and transsexuals certainly do.

But a man with a penis, nah.

Do you deny transgender people exist?

Can you explain what you mean by this?
are you suggesting we think they are fictional?
Or are you parroting something you've heard other people say without thinking of the actual meaning?

People who feel drawn toward stereotypes of the opposite sex, and people who feel they are meant to be the opposite sex do exist. Clearly these people do exist.... they may even feel they have been born in the wrong body due to a dysphoria.

I don't think one person has ever said Trans-gender people don't exist.
They can't however change sex, it's impossible., that's the whole point of being in the "wrong body", they are biologically a sex.

Many of us have found our way here because we are gender non conforming, have gender non conforming children, are close to trans identifying people or loved ones with gender dysphoria in our family or friendship groups.

Some visitors to FWR are very naive to think that we are all viewing this issue from afar.

Transgender - someone who doesn’t feel the need to follow the stereotype norms of gender display. Doesn’t change their sex though does it? They can’t even get close without drugs and surgery.

No amount of wishes and hopes can change a male body to a female one, and you can’t just change what the word ‘woman’ means to accommodate men.