Dr Mike Webberley suspended

[Brighterf]

Seems like Dr Mike Webberley has now also been suspended and he and his wife now plan to take their services overseas. Can't see this reported elsewhere yet though.

www.gaystarnews.com/article/mike-webberley-suspended-trans-kids/

Just to clarify, money is going FROM Helen Webberely to one of their companies (not TO Webberely) and Mike Webberely has a business in Belize. A country with a 'good reputation for finance'.

"Why Belize?" I hear you all saying...

Here's a little bit of background general knowledge I've picked up over the course of the last couple of years.

I've looked into Belize and its financial reputation a little cos of a man named Arron (you may know him from such instances as Nige's mate and a photo outside a gold lift)

Anyway Belize has something of a reputation. If you Google 'Belize money laundering' like I did cos I was rather interesting in why Mr Banks likes Belize and why the NCA is investigating Mr Banks and why opendemocracy.net and the guardian have talked about how Mr Banks income doesn't seem to add up you get this as your very first hit:

www.sanpedrosun.com/crime-and-violence/2018/04/11/international-report-marks-belize-major-drug-trafficking-money-laundering-country/
International report marks Belize as major drug trafficking and money laundering country

Now there is no suggestion that the Webberely have done anything criminal here and I'm going to stress that. I just find Belize an interesting choice to have financial interests in.

When you click on the link for Spectrum Support Services Ltd, it lists Asaar Technology Ltd as a director, with the same address in Belize (not Abergavenny this time).

Helen Webberley became "a person with significant control" of Asaar Technology on 17 April 2019. Mike Webberley and Spectrum became directors on the same date, and the previous director resigned and the registered address changed. So this is when the Webberleys took over this company.

I have no idea what all this means, but it looks to me, as a non-expert, as a way of getting their money out of the UK. No idea on the legality of this.

I have new found interest in what the National Crime Agency will find with Arron Banks and whether there are particular issues with Belize and finance, Old Crone.

God I love the Miss Marples of Mumsnet.

Needmoresleep

Mermaids signpost to both GenderGP and that site that was exposed a while back as sending out binders to children for free in unmarked packaging. I flagged this up in the welsh government rse consultation which signposted teachers to mermaids so hopefully it'll connect with someones brain

Sorry didn't rtft before my post asking about the 4 GPs.

If the GenderGP service was stopped then some former patients would inevitably self-medicate, putting themselves at much greater risk.

This is absolutely not a reason to prescribe dangerous drugs to kids. Some kids suffer a lot of pain, if they threaten to/actually buy morphine online, does this mean the GP should rpescribe it to them?!

If this goes for all aspects of healthcare rather than just trans, then I will start buying more pain relief from local dealers, then go to some private quack who will up my meds to a higher level? I genuinely do need more painkillers, but would not go down that route, and certainly would not expect my doctor to increase based on something like that.

Transgender stuff seems to be treat so much differently to all other conditions. Its baffling really.

Sorry am mad busy so have only scanned the thread. I don't think this bit of research has been posted yet.

Another business connected to the Webberleys was Dr Matt Ltd.

Here is the CQC report:

www.cqc.org.uk/sites/default/files/new_reports/AAAG2254.pdf

Here is a relevant BBC news article:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-39520785

CQC summary:

Practice policies were available but staff had no awareness of the policies. For example, the adult safeguarding policy.

Risks to patients were not appropriately assessed or managed. For example, we found patients being prescribed large quantities of inhalers for the treatment of respiratory disease but there was a lack of monitoring or follow up for these patients whose condition could put them at serious risk of harm.

There service did not follow current evidence based guidelines and standards.

There was no formal programme in place for quality improvement, for example clinical audits, to assess the service provision including organisational learning from significant events.

Another, possibly more apt, analogy would be with doctors supplying slimming pills to anorexics. I’m sure many would be ‘satisfied’ with that service.

Yes, that is pretty much the same thing. Though of course, we aren't meant to mention that gender dysphoria is a mental illness, much the same as anorexia is.

And whats up with the assumption that if parents are against giving dangerous drugs to their kids, that means they have no experience of gender dysphoria? As if all parents of trans kids must agree that giving out hormones or whatever left right and centre is good for the children. Its not. Especially given the fact that when left alone instead of medicalised and such, the huge majority of kids grow out of the dysphoria, though if shoved on blockers, 100% go onto transition in adulthood.

Just to clarify, money is going FROM Helen Webberely to one of their companies (not TO Webberely) and Mike Webberely has a business in Belize.

So what happens to the money from when it is paid to the Webberleys until it gets channelled to the Belize company? Because it doesn't seem to be going through any of their UK businesses. Is it going straight to Belize with no tax paid? Or what?

Old Crone, it would be interesting to see who patient contracts are with. I used to get contact lens from a high street optician but mailed from the Channel Islands, and Amazon put much of their business through low tax Luxembourg (was the deal negotiated when Junkers was PM!)

But this opens up a further question of liability.

If one of today’s teens finds, in a decades time, that they are crippled with osteoporosis and needing a liver transplant, who is negligent? An elderly couple living in Spain, a company in Belize, medical insurers who might try to wiggle around their responsibilities given the warnings the pair have had and the way Mr took over from Mrs when Mrs was suspended.

Genuine question. It’s an area I know nothing about.

A few questions:

Are any of the webberleys companies registered with the CQC? I looked and couldn't find any.

I thought that all healthcare provided - regardless of whether they were public or private - were supposed to be.

Do we have a loop hole here where the CQC do not regulate online medical services?

The NHS website has a Web page entitled
www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/nhs-services/pharmacies/dangers-of-buying-medicines-online/
Dangers of buying medicines online

This mentions:
The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) has a register of authorised online sellers of medicines, which you can use to check if a website is legally allowed to sell medicines to the public.

Now this particular database seems to include companies which have had registration removed - its not just companies who are approved.

Yet a can't find a trace of the Webberleys or gendergp.co.uk (noting the UK domain name here, which legally is based in the UK not abroad)

Which I find surprising, if they are dishing out hormones.

Given that online medical services are the model of care being proposed that we should move a lot more to (despite academic research that online based services are not necessarily good for patients, particularly vulnerable patients) isn't this rather a large oversight, and one that parliament should be thinking of addressing.

It strikes me, the Webberelys seem to be navigating a whole pile of cracks in the system here.

Who is looking into this?

Who is considering patient safety in an online context on a political level?

Anyone?

Interesting.

Are any of the webberleys companies registered with the CQC?

See my post just above, Red. The dispenser was Dr Matt Ltd.

So who is held responsible for negligence if there problems down the road? Given young children have been receiving new treatments with unclear long term outcomes.

And where is the resource/expertise in the NHS to care for, especially, FtMs who appear to need long term monitoring of hormone levels and kidney function.

Malaga is an interesting choice for a second home - plenty of Brits have relocated there purely for the sun, sea and relaxed lifestyle of course, but the Costa Del Sol is still struggling with the after effects of it’s 70s/80s reputation as the ‘Costa Del Crime’ (and politicians have warned of a post Brexit return to the pre 2004 situation).

www.heraldscotland.com/news/15918688.brexit-could-usher-in-new-costa-del-crime-era/
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/10/brexit-could-bring-back-bad-old-days-of-costa-del-warns-mep

www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/james-mulvey-drugs-solihull-14790435

(All linked articles from 2018)

I would imagine that a Malaga based accountant with a certain type of client base would be rather interested in the financial structures of Belize.

Not making allegations against the Webberley’s specifically here, just thinking out loud about cultural context...

Old Crone, my question is what kind of lifestyle are the Webberely's leading. And do they have evidence of these earnings and where they are paying tax.

And would the Spanish Authorities be interested in their sources of income.

I refer you to the case of the International Football Players and the Spanish Tax Man

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40287173
Why are Spanish football stars in legal trouble?

Spain has attracted arguably the three brightest lights of world football, with Cristiano Ronaldo of Real Madrid and Barcelona's Lionel Messi and Neymar all plying their skills in La Liga.

Over the past year, football fans have become used to seeing the trio caught up in accusations of tax fraud and other financial crimes by the Spanish courts.

And they are not the only players in the crosshairs of the Spanish judiciary. In 2016, Lionel Messi's Argentina and Barcelona team-mate, Javier Mascherano, received a one-year suspended prison sentence for tax fraud.

Lionel Messi and father Jorge were last year convicted of defrauding the Spanish state of €4.1m (£3.6m; $4.6m) in unpaid taxes on the striker's image rights, controlled by offshore companies in Belize and Uruguay.

Now it seems they are targeting very high incomes and this case might not be relevant to the Webberely in various ways...

... But its interesting.

Also relevant here is the The EU Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive (Directive 2016/1164/EU) which was introduced this year.
ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/company-tax/anti-tax-avoidance-package/anti-tax-avoidance-directive_en

This was a directive requiring EU members to put in place measures to combat aggressive corporate tax avoidance.

Now I don't fully understand this, and it's scope (and loopholes) and how much is now up and running, but its interesting...

I like interesting things.

Mr Banks and Mr Farage are not fans of this. Mr Farage doesn't turn up in Brussels to do work very often. But he always turns up to oppose laws like this one.

Redtoothbrush

GenderGP’s prescriptions seem to be fulfilled by a company called ‘ClearChemist’ (unless the patient can convince their GP to take over repeat prescribing duties after diagnosis/initial prescription is made by a Webberley).

(See comments on this reddit post: www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/76qgd9/just_wondering_how_legit_gendergp_is/ )

Nice little circular link between the pharmacy site and the Webberley’s (see text in red).

www.clearchemist.co.uk/online-doctor/feminizing-therapy.html

The dispenser was Dr Matt Ltd.

So tell me.

How is the average person able to find this out?
How can they check that the company they are dealing with is above board when you effectively have all these multiple names and a distinct lack of transparency.

It should be that you or me or any other member of the public can search for the operating name - not the company or individual buried in the small print.

The fact that burying in the small print is allowed is potentially harmful to patients. It gives patients a limited ability to check people who are operating.

How about a legal obligation to show a 'CQC star rating' prominently on your website home page if you are a healthcare operator.

And if this is abused its a straight prosecution with criminal sanction. And the power to remove any Co.uk Web domain.

Honestly the whole field of online medicine seems to be disaster waiting to happen because its poorly regulated and utterly opaque.

The dispenser was Dr Matt Ltd.

Not according to the GenderGP site:

What happened with Dr Matt?
I provided medical services to Dr Matt Ltd but when they had their CQC inspection recently, the CQC uncovered some areas of concern throughout the business and they have temporarily suspended the service. This service is unrelated to GenderGP.

gendergp.co.uk/queries/

CQC is for England. The Webberleys are in Wales, and Helen Webberley was prosecuted for failing to register her clinic with Health Inspectorate Wales.

Interesting. I need a repeat prescription for a skin ointment and so whilst on the Clear Chemist website, looked up how much it would cost to order on line rather than bother the GP. This was the text I got. So it seems as if the Webberleys are cashing in, £25 a time, on everything ordered through the website.

“This is a prescription only medicine. To purchase this item you must have a legally valid prescription from your doctor or medical professional. If you need a prescription please choose 'I need a Prescription' from the drop down above and fill in the simple questionnaire. The Online Doctor will then review and prescribe if appropriate. Online Doctor services are provided by ‘Dr Webberley’ (Company No. 09315897). Clear Chemist do not offer treatment of disease, disorder or injury. By signing up for this service, you agree that your personal data will be sent to our third-party provider ‘Dr Webberley’ to enable them to provide medical advice remotely.

3 Easy Steps:

1 - Choose "I need a prescription" from the drop down

2 - Add item to basket

3 - Fill in questionnaire and pay.

You only pay for the product plus a £25 charge for the online doctor consultation. If no prescription is issued we will refund you the charge in FULL.”

Will the fact both are suspended make any difference. Or is this yet another loop hole.

Red - completely agree. It's a nightmare and a disaster waiting to happen.

Oh FFS.

Why are we having multiple bodies on a regional basis for online services which are used by patients in BOTH England and Wales???

This is just not good enough.

So who is held responsible for negligence if there problems down the road?

Yes quite. Is it the prescriber or the consultant or the ones who own the online clinic.

Just just a chain it which it becomes no clear line of responsibility which ultimately fails the person at the end of it: the patient.

Honest, MPs who believe in good health care for all should be all over this like a rash, because it affects all areas of care not just trans medicine.

The rules, regs, bodies and authorities quite clearly are not up to the job of medicine online. And once again MPs technological illiteracy and general lack of knowledge is glaring.

It gets worse the more you scratch the subject.

There is not a cohesive safeguarding network here.

Old Crone, my question is what kind of lifestyle are the Webberely's leading. And do they have evidence of these earnings and where they are paying tax.

That's what I'd like to know as well. What happens to the money after their 'paying customers' in the UK have handed it over to the Webberleys? I think that's part of the same question - or at least a related one. The accounts don't tell us anything about that.

Just rereading something you said earlier, which I didn't really take in then:
money is going FROM Helen Webberely to one of their companies

Where have you seen evidence of this?

Not according to the GenderGP site

Wow. One wonders why the BBC article says:

One company, Doctor Matt Ltd, had its registration suspended for six months when the regulator found medications were being prescribed after a patient's application was assessed in only 17 seconds.

The Royal Pharmaceutical Society has warned that regulators outside England need to adopt the same guidelines for inspection to make sure patients are not being put at risk.

Theoretically, companies could move to areas such as Wales with different inspection standards.

Dr Webberley, who is also the registered manager of the Doctor Matt website, said the 17-second prescription was "actually much longer than an NHS repeat prescription" would take to sign.

I think the Webberleys need to get their stories straight.

Sorry its me who misread it. My mistake.

There is a directors loan going to Helen Webberely. Which was repaid during the year. Which is what you are supposed to do if you want to avoid tax issue.

www.crunch.co.uk/knowledge/tax/directors-loan-account/

Still the company ran at a loss in 2018. Which is perhaps surprising.